man's imperfection is theoretically created by capitalism though, so therefore the theory cannot be tested. under current circumstances. there were some utopian socialists, pretty radical thoughts that even marx himself rejected

Well, the thing is that man is inherently imperfect. Nothing we do is perfect, because we are mathematically imprecise. We are unable to account for every possible scenario. And greed is what Marx cites as preventing us from a Utopian society.

Unfortunately, greed is not so easily confined to wealth and posession. There is also greed for another man's more beautiful wife, for instance.

yeah but in a perfect socialist society, the wealth and posessions will be equally distributed, everyone will have the best of everything, and things are not made to waste but made to people. i need to read marx's works............... ed:

I actually have had the honor of being able to read them in their original language. I'd read them in English previously, but they make a lot more sense when read in German.

At any rate, what I'm saying is that even if all sources of greed were eliminated (those being money and posession), man will inherently find something else to covet. These coveted things will be power, companionship, etc.

Doh, triple-post.

ZEE EVIL PHPBB CRITICAL ERROR!

Doh, triple-post.

ZEE EVIL PHPBB CRITICAL ERROR!

[quote="Old Reliable":6982a]yeah but in a perfect socialist society, the wealth and posessions will be equally distributed, everyone will have the best of everything, and things are not made to waste but made to people. i need to read marx's works............... ed:[/quote:6982a]

Wealth is a "relative" term. Under that system you would need everyone to accept that no matter how hard they work or dont work, they will get the same pay same benefits same goods same service. No reason to try or to excel. Quite frankly - you can have it.

um no, cause each person works at their own will, so basically there will be a demand for your goods, you produce and in turn other people produce for you. and also for people who don't want to work, they can move on to a nother trade where they are more specialised

[quote="Old Reliable":3ed01]um no, cause each person works at their own will, so basically there will be a demand for your goods, you produce and in turn other people produce for you. and also for people who don't want to work, they can move on to a nother trade where they are more specialised[/quote:3ed01]
[img]http://www.rijnhoven.nl/britt/assets/images/dumbo3.gif[/img]

a perfect world is no suffering and no poverty. but that doesnt mean some arent well off more than others. its always been some persons drive to perform better or work harder than others and hard work should be rewarded. if everyone worked just as hard, there would be no wealth and no poverty, you would all be the same. if everyone was the same there would be no strive for progress or ambition. there would be no change and there would be no reason to get up in the morning.

This is where Jesus comes in...

John Kerry asshat man broke tradition by campaigning during the RNC, and gave an anti bush speach right sfter bushes speach, when he hadnt even seen bushes speach.

and that, my borthers, is why true communism will never work. it slows sown a scoiety's progress, until it eventually goes backwards.

i dont see how democracy is working either, but oooook oOo:

Democracy is obviously not working since we are the most wealthy and powerful nation in the world. oOo: