I was using it as the example. It was really low brow and stupid to even publish them

Anyone would change their minds after reading Adolf Eichmann's journal entrys.. He practically sabotaged part of the war effort in order to exterminate as many jews as he could... He stole trains from German generals in order to ship more jews to the camps...

[quote="Short Hand":17d30]ANyone would change their minds after reading Adolf Eichmann's journal entrys.. The practically sabotaged part of the war effort in order to exterminate as many jews as he could... He stole trains from German Generals in order to ship more jews to the camps...[/quote:17d30]
thanks Short, but don't expect ninty, machette and the anti-American brigade to accept that type of "hear-say!" rolleyes:



[quote=Machette]It's on the same debate level, look at what that Iran paper is doing..having a contest on who can make a cartoon best on mocking the holocaust.[/quote:17d30]
"It's on the same debate level"??

..are you even human anymore in your pretend blind hatred for America?
cartoons against muhammed = murdering millions of people?

but of course, on the other hand, people like yourself and ninty must go out of your way when you're upholding the rights of people who mock and deny the facts...even while they show their true nature by pretending to have a change of mind when it suits them, nice one ninty, good one machette...enjoying your freedoms there? freak:

yeah...we all, like... feel teh depth of ur belief mang eek:

if you cant make fun or yourself who can you?

[quote="Eight Ace":e1add] [quote=Machette]It's on the same debate level, look at what that Iran paper is doing..having a contest on who can make a cartoon best on mocking the holocaust.[/quote:e1add]
"It's on the same debate level"??

..are you even human anymore in your pretend blind hatred for America?
cartoons against muhammed = murdering millions of people?

but of course, on the other hand, people like yourself and ninty must go out of your way when you're upholding the rights of people who mock and deny the facts...even while they show their true nature by pretending to have a change of mind when it suits them, nice one ninty, good one machette...enjoying your freedoms there? freak:[/quote:e1add]

Eight Ace, I feel I may never understand the depths of you...Firstly I am in no ways against America, it irritates me every time I see you putting words in my mouth, it really does. I question things the Americans do but I don't hate them. I guess all the elite papers like New York Times and Canada's Globe and Mail are pretty stupid for putting this issue of freedom of speech for the holocaust and the cartoons on the same level, shame on them for being so irresponsible and spreading hate through their papers. It's not a question of the deaths in the holocaust, its about this mans freedom to speak out against it. I feel that you along with a handful of others on this board never express your opinion but instead lash out your anger on other peoples views instead of expressing your own argument. Are you against Irving's freedom of speech or for it? Thats all I asked. Not a rhetorical debate about cartoons and the holocaust. It's about freedom of speech, me saying its on the same debate level meant the freedom of speech issue - Should irving be allowed to deny the holocaust? Should Iran be able to publish satirical cartoons against the holocaust? That's what I meant. Should their be restrictions on freedom of speech?

Questions like that.

[quote:78a8f]Whether we like it or not, he has every right to say what he wants.[/quote:78a8f]

According to the Austrian government - no he does not.

[quote:78a8f]It's on the same debate level[/quote:78a8f]

Only as a matter of "freedom of speech" - other than that the two have precious little to do with each other.

[quote:78a8f]if i made a cartoon mocking christian conservatives, they would retaliate against me.[/quote:78a8f]

Uhm - in America? Or Europe? Mocking christian conservatives is done DAILY - and I dont know too many movie studios, etc. getting burned down.

Lets not be so damn naive here - this man proclaimed the Holocaust didnt happen in AUSTRIA. Not LONDON. Not CANADA. Not AU. Fucking AUSTRIA. Its on the same level as some fool giving the Nazi salute in Germany, and proclaiming "free speech.

This is a ridiculous debate anyway. There is no such thing as freedom of speech - what you say and cannot say is controlled in EVERY government.

I think he shoyuld have a right to say what he wants...but a country can do what they want...and if he did it their...he has every right to go down for it.

Same reason we don't chop off hands for stealing shit here...but if you go there and do it you should know you lose a hand for it.

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for
people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."
-Noam Chomsky

Finally someone quoted chomsky. biggrin:

hah, i knew you'd like that mach

[quote="David Irving":68180]"I say quite tastelessly, in fact, that more women died on the back seat of Edward Kennedy's car at Chappaquiddick than ever died in a gas chamber in Auschwitz".[/quote:68180]
[quote="David Irving":68180]"I'm going to form an association of Auschwitz survivors, survivors of the Holocaust and other liars, or the ASSHOLS".[/quote:68180]
[quote="David Irving when he looked like facing jail time":68180]"I'm not a Holocaust denier. Obviously, I've changed my views. The Nazis did murder millions of Jews." added Irving[/quote:68180]

Said he changed his views when he went to Hitlers office and studied letters from Eichmann.

I wonder if he changed his spiteful mocking and outrageous hate jokes at the same time,
it's one thing to express a view that is counter to common belief, but to gleefully wallow
in the worst aspects of it and travel the world getting applause for it from nazi wannabes?

...then he reads a few Eichmann letters and he reverses his stance?, well dog my cats.. oOo:

"Perhaps the biggest insight into his deeper motivation comes not from the libel case, but from
the opening line of his introduction to the new edition of Hitler's War, posted on his website:

"To historians is granted a talent that even the gods are denied - to alter what has already happened."

[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/irving/article/0,2763,181054,00.html:3fa62]Link[/url:3fa62]

o rly?

I suppose freedom of speech by definition could have no abuse-of freedom of speech type resctrictions....
[quote="Eight Ace":3fa62]I believe irving can say what he likes, but if he is arrogant enough to travel to a country that has laws against expressing that view and ends up in jail then LOL![/quote:3fa62]

I doubt he'll do 3yrs anyway, but as an upholder of free speech I think the Judges should use their imagination,
yes he should go on record as having broken an Austrian law, but he should only stay in jail as long as it takes
to meet with Holocaust survivors, credible historians, neo nazis chums etc, and arrange for all media to post his
new views compared to his previous ones.

maybe the failed conspiracy theorist could even throw in a few hand-written apologies to the
concentration camp survivors he actaully chose to testify against in court if they're still alive, that type of thing.

I'm not denying he is a coward but before he went into his holocaust denial he was a good historian. He wrote one of the greatest works on the destruction of dresden among other things, bad to see a career go to waste.