[quote="mr.myiagi":c2572]I jus think its sad how you all need guns to defend yourselves thats all, I mean Canada has tons of guns but their gun murder rate is tiny, America's is the biggest in the world....hundreds of other countries have no guns and obviously have no gun murders ever.
You may say more lives are saved because of gun ownership? well thats silly because look at all of the lives taken in the process to balance it out, thousands and thousands. Just because lives are saved because of them doesn't take away the fact theres so many taken in the process.
[/quote:c2572]

I think it is sad that your government thinks so little of you that they don't even trust you to own a gun.

Well here is my formula.

schizophrenic

+

no medication

+

drinking

x

revolver

+ rejection

= Some one is gonna get shot.

[quote=Johnj]I think it is sad that your government thinks so little of you that they don't even trust you to own a gun.[/quote:e0f7b]


well that may be true, but here unlike there, we can TRUST, our government to a certain degree.

[quote="Short Hand":78266][quote=Johnj]I think it is sad that your government thinks so little of you that they don't even trust you to own a gun.[/quote:78266]


well that may be true, but here unlike there, we can TRUST, our government to a certain degree.[/quote:78266]ooooo that hurt

[quote="Short Hand":969e3]well that may be true, but here unlike there, we can TRUST, our government to a certain degree.[/quote:969e3]


Really? Like when the Canadian government said that the gun registration program that y'all have now was going to cost less then a $100 million to implement? Right now the cost to your tax payers is in the billions and is still climbing.

[quote:36c6d]# 1995 estimates on the cost of the Canadian Firearms Program were that it would cost $119 million, but that registration fees would bring in $117 million, leaving the total cost to the taxpayers of $2 million.
# In December 2002, a preliminary audit by the Auditor General of Canada revealed that the Department of Justice was estimating the gun registry program would cost more than $1 billion by 2004-05, and collect about $140 million in fees. The Auditor General noted that this estimate did not include all financial impacts on the government[/quote:36c6d]

not quite a billion, but close... a pretty big "mistake by the government" yes.



..compared to a MULTi billion doller war...... http://costofwar.com/

75 billion was the orginal estimate.. now look.

Operation fucking Disaster more like it.

[quote="Short Hand":dfb9a]well that may be true, but here unlike there, we can TRUST, our government to a certain degree.[/quote:dfb9a]

I like the qualifier you put on the end. Or in other words YOU CAN'T TRUST YOUR GOVERNMENT.

[quote="mr.miyagi":0fcac]Can anyone give me some good reasons to why america needs so many guns?

Why do civillians own guns?[/quote:0fcac]
Normal people with guns don't shoot other people because they wouldn't kiss them... oOo:

[quote=Johnj]I think it is sad that your government thinks so little of you that they don't even trust you to own a gun.[/quote:16f03]
We don't want or even ask for guns, we can take care of ourselves without them. Not having guns around is a great thing, all they're used for is for killing stuff.

[quote="Short Hand":48330]... cost to the taxpayers of $2 million.....
# In December 2002, a preliminary audit by the Auditor General of Canada revealed that the Department of Justice was estimating the gun registry program would cost more than $1 billion by 2004-05, and collect about $140 million in fees. The Auditor General noted that this estimate did not include all financial impacts on the government
.[/quote:48330]

This was an estimate from 2002. They were right about it not including all of the costs.

As for the war in Iraq, in terms of percentage overrun, I would say that the Canadian estimate was further from the actual expenditure.

160 500 000 000less then 2 years. > 1 000 000 000 over 10 years

[quote="Short Hand":42ab1]160 500 000 000less then 2 years. > 1 000 000 000 over 10 years[/quote:42ab1]

LOL - I understand the actual dollar is higher - I'm talking about telling the Canadina people you will only cost them 2 million and instead the cost is, very conservatively. going to be 500 times higher. If the US had a overrun that high the cost of the war would be $37,500,000,000,000 (or almost 15 times the entire US annual budget) And like I said the 1 billion is conservative - there is no end in sight and it looks like it will be in the multiple billions. So that it could be a 1000 times or 1500 times more than originally projected.

[quote=Johnj]I think it is sad that your government thinks so little of you that they don't even trust you to own a gun.[/quote:eb9fa]

^ That kind of statement pisses me off so much....Demonstrates that anyone who says it believes the rest of the world hold guns to the same regard as said person does. NOT TRUE. Britain, New Zealand, Austalia etc, owning a gun is a PRIVILEGE. Not a right.

That being said, however, it's understandable looking at the U.S's history, frontiers, wild west, war of independence etc.

It's different in our countries though....


So I'm not criticising American gun laws here, I'm simply saying it is different in our countries and that we as a people are very HAPPY with our gun laws, they suit the current situation, and if we were offered a law change, I can guarantee, that down here in NZ at least, the laws would remain. That proves that we're not being oppressed by our government, so you don't need to feel 'sad.'

This isn't anything personal, Johnj, I've read similar statements around here a couple of times. Just thought I'd make this decleration because it bothers me that people think we're some how oppressed by our governments because of our tight gun laws....

I love America. beer: rock: rock: rock: rock: rock: cool:














annoy:

so this is why toobis has gone AWOL

I don't think you guys will ever understand. It's like trying to explain refrigeration to a Roman gladiator

Understand American gun laws? Or why our governments are oppressing us?

DUKE YOU CAN BE MY MAN IF YOU WANT

[quote=Colonel]LOL - I understand the actual dollar is higher - I'm talking about telling the Canadina people you will only cost them 2 million and instead the cost is, very conservatively. going to be 500 times higher. If the US had a overrun that high the cost of the war would be $37,500,000,000,000 (or almost 15 times the entire US annual budget) And like I said the 1 billion is conservative - there is no end in sight and it looks like it will be in the multiple billions. So that it could be a 1000 times or 1500 times more than originally projected.[/quote:4aa33]


I give up with trying to argue republicans. oOo:

My good friend of mine was approached by some punk with a switchblade late at night while my friend was depositing some money at the bank (he's a manager for a restaurant so he had to do it after closing time.) Thankfully, he had a gun under his seat, and just got it and pointed it at the punk. The guy saw the gun, so he decided death probably wasn't worth the money, and left.

[quote="mr.miyagi":4922d]I jus think its sad how you all need guns to defend yourselves thats all, I mean Canada has tons of guns but their gun murder rate is tiny, America's is the biggest in the world....hundreds of other countries have no guns and obviously have no gun murders ever.
You may say more lives are saved because of gun ownership? well thats silly because look at all of the lives taken in the process to balance it out, thousands and thousands. Just because lives are saved because of them doesn't take away the fact theres so many taken in the process.

And Duke_of_ray can go fuck himself, your comment about banning things left right and centre was a retarded one and just showed your brain doesn't work behind those oOo: eyes. I'm talking about imagining the difference if there was no guns, I'm not saying ban them all NOW!!!!!
I never have to worry about getting shot or shooting anyone ever and thats a nice feeling to have, say if someone wants to knife me then bring it on.
Guns are just for pussies biggrin:

Its more of a discussion rather than a protest. I do realise your culture and rights are different from my country too, just expressing an opinion cool:[/quote:4922d]

I am just say imagine the differance if there was no alcohol, just imagine. Thank you. freak:

No, the right to own firearms, or more basicly rights in and of themselves. And I didn't say your government is oppressing you, I said your government doesn't trust you. I also did not ask for any changes to be made in your countrys.

wallbash:



wallbash:





wallbash:



guns dont kill people, bullets do

[quote="Short Hand":572e4]I give up with trying to argue republicans.[/quote:572e4]

I'm a Democrat.

guns don't kill people...people with guns kill people.

Eight is right it is the people, not the guns that kill people.People with (insert object) kill people. You could be killed by someone using a newspaper.

Yeah, that's true.....But it's ALOT easier to kill someone with a gun than a newspaper.

....and in case you've forgot, the government IS the people, so effectively we don't trust OURSELVES enough to have unstrict gun laws, which I say is fair enough. We don't have that kind of government vs people type of mentality in our country, maybe because we trust our government is merely providing for us.

In New Zealand (Australia, and England also I assume), you can own and shoot guns when you earn the right by getting a license and proving through commitment of time and effort your requirement to own a gun. So you can still own guns, it's just the laws are strict.

Government is the people?

I hope it hasn't gone that far, because politicians are a true disgrace to the human race.

[quote="dr nein":b2a76]Government is the people?

I hope it hasn't gone that far, because politicians are a true disgrace to the human race.[/quote:b2a76]

That's where the two countries are different....(Although alot of our politicians are wankers also)

heres one fact you all seem to miss: in america, people who buy guns with intent to commit crime dont buy them legally, because it can be traced back to them through gun registration. Guns used in crimes are as illegal here as they are anywhere. The only difference is, here the average citizen can defend himself. I'd explain it better, but Im in a rush atm

There isnt a necessity to own guns in the US, its a want. People want guns. If all guns in the US were to magically disappear, the demand would still be high enough for citizens and criminals to smuggle them in or make their own. The US is a dangerous place to live in, especially if you live in a large metro area like NY, DC, Chicago, Philly, and S California. Its a fact that Americans have to live with.

[quote="Eight Ace":a6b09]guns don't kill people...people with guns kill people.[/quote:a6b09]

His right. Lets get rid of all the people. cuss:

[quote="Jimbo@":81c31][quote="Eight Ace":81c31]guns don't kill people...people with guns kill people.[/quote:81c31]

His right. Lets get rid of all the people. cuss:[/quote:81c31]

[quote="Jimbo@":70a3c][quote="Eight Ace":70a3c]guns don't kill people...people with guns kill people.[/quote:70a3c]

His right. Lets get rid of all the people. cuss:[/quote:70a3c]
mwah!!

[quote=Akuma][quote="Jimbo@":bfd11]His right. Lets get rid of all the people. cuss:[/quote:bfd11][/quote:bfd11]
hello? I didn't say get rid of all people...just those with guns, that's right...all people without guns
rise up and kick the shit out of all those gun toting armed to the teeth trigger happy ..erm nvm.. loney:

if allowing americans the right to bear arms is trusting the people...well they are pretty much fucking it up with their murder rates.

Meh...I guess people don't care that for them to have a gun...thousands have to die by the same invention.

Sorry - this one is old (1998), but relates to stats taken from The Third International Crime Victimization Survey (ICVS)....Pertinent points to note:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* The highest incidence of violent crime in the industrialized world was in England and Wales.
* Canadians suffer as much violent crime as Americans, and more non-violent crime.
* Crimes of all sorts, including murder, are lowest in those states with the highest rates of gun ownership.
* The murder rates in other industrialized nations have inched closer to those in the U.S. despite various attempts to register all guns or license all gun owners, or even ban guns altogether.
* Burglaries in Canada are more than four times as likely to occur when the residents are home as they are in the U.S.
* States such as Vermont, New Hampshire, North Dakota and Montana, where gun ownership is at least twice what it is in Canada, have murder rates as low as one-half that in the Canadian provinces which are their immediate neighbours.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you can make stats say about anything you want but to me it is interesting that when you compare areas of these USA that have similar population densities to Canada, we have much lower crime stats. I also found one article that said that Canada and the UK report their murder rates differently than the US. In those countries it is reported only after a conviction. For some reason in the US it is reported as a murder - even if during the trial it is found to be an accidental shooting or manslaughter.

I also found the following, which leads me to think that there are scores of Canadians who do believe the current registration law is oppressive...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



It has been estimated that as many as 900,000 gun-owning Canadians have not registered their firearms. As of June 2003, 6.4 million firearms had been registered which is far short of the government's 1974 estimate of 10 million guns in Canada. Currently, all provinces and territories save Quebec (which has the lowest gun ownership rate) oppose the registry and refuse to prosecute violators.



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gotta go more later. .... Dang I didn't mean to get roped into another long running debate! LOL

Well im more so refering to Toronto...which has crime, but seemingly less than cities of our size in America...I can't really speak for much else than Brampton or Toronto.

Brampton is FUCKED though.

the gun related deaths:population ratio in canada is higher than in the US. However the raw number is much smaller. Things micheal moore hid from us....

Even so...if our population was the same as USA...it doens't guarentee that would make us have more crime than the US.