This will go down as one of the worst homeland security blunders in US history.

thats retarded, why wont they let them leave new orleans? wtf is going on here?

Well, according to the LA Times:

[quote:5ab38]Their mission, simply, is to turn New Orleans into a police state — to "regain the city,"

LA Times | September 3 2005

Forty-four troops pressed together in their truck, swaying as one at every bump and turn like reeds in a river.

As they plunged into the dark water engulfing the business district of New Orleans, their wake pushed the body of a woman onto the steps of the Superdome. The floodwater had ripped her pants down to her knees. She was facedown in the muck, a red ribbon still tied neatly around her graying hair.

The troops, members of an elite Special Response Team from the Louisiana Army National Guard, were the first convoy out of what was rapidly becoming a massive military staging ground.

Their mission, simply, is to turn New Orleans into a police state — to "regain the city," 1st Sgt. John Jewell said.

The truck lurched through the streets, past buildings burning unabated and MPs in gun turrets. When they stopped to gear up for their arrival at the New Orleans Convention Center, where more than 15,000 people had been living in squalor since Katrina, these words echoed — for the first time, one would imagine — through the intersection of Poydras Avenue and Carondelet Street: "Lock and load!"

"Sixteen in the clip!" one Guardsman shouted, a common refrain used to indicate that rifles are fully loaded.

But when they arrived, they did not find marauding mobs. They did not come under fire. They found people who had lost everything in the storm and, since then, their dignity.

The troops were part of the Superdome team that came to town before the hurricane. For days, they had been cut off from news reports, sleeping and working among the refugees and the vicious rumor mill at the Superdome.

Their Superdome duties left them with a terrible image of the city. They knew that out on the streets, a police officer had been shot in the head, that looting was widespread, that snipers were taking shots even at boaters trying to rescue victims from rooftops and attics.

Now assigned to patrol the streets, they headed for the New Orleans Convention Center, in the city's central business district. Many had wads of tobacco in their bottom lip and emitted long, dense streams of spittle into the streets below.

Their mission was to establish a command post at the center, which officials have increasingly turned their attention to, particularly as the evacuation of the Superdome nears its end. They would then build a staging area to bring in food and water. Finally, they would send in teams to seize control of a massive and lawless facility.

The troops braced for the worst.

"Is this the calm before the storm?" one asked as they rolled through the streets.

"There are a lot of gangs out here in the water," said Sgt. 1st Class Maris Pichon, a 26-year veteran of the National Guard who served in Afghanistan last year. "This is not going to be a cakewalk."

Two trucks pulled beside them, one carrying water and one a massive pile of ready-to-eat military meals in boxes.

"Tell me they're not letting the food go in before the troops," one Guardsman said.

"That's called bait," another said.

They pulled into a parking lot next to the convention center in full battle mode. They spilled over the sides of the truck, formed a tight circle and began walking outward, stepping over the detritus of the refugees. Dirty underwear. A CD that included the song "Thank God I'm a Country Boy."

A troop carrier rolled over an empty water bottle, popping it like a balloon. The troops yanked their weapons to a firing position before realizing what it was.

"No civilians in this parking lot!" a sergeant shouted. "Hold your perimeter!"

No one came at them but a nurse. She was wearing a T-shirt that read "I love New Orleans." She ran down a broken escalator, then held her hands in the air when she saw the guns.

"We have sick kids up here!" she shouted. "We have dehydrated kids! One kid with sickle cell!"
Another storm victim, Cory Williams, 50, a respiratory therapist spending his third day at the convention center, greeted the troops as they came up the stairs.

He had ridden out the storm at his 9th Ward house. On Tuesday morning, when the flooding began in earnest, 6 feet of water came inside in five minutes, he said. He tried to stay on top of a car in the garage but the water continued to rise, so he made a run for it, dragging several neighbors out behind him on an inflatable raft as he swam, then waded, through the water.

He made it several miles west, toward downtown and higher ground, then watched police stop at gunpoint a Ryder van that had been hot-wired by thieves. The officers told the men inside that they had to stop looting and must try to get people out of the neighborhoods, that people were dying.

"Believe it or not, those dudes got the message," Williams said.

The thieves began ferrying people out of the devastated neighborhoods to the east. The police had deputized looters.

"They had to," Williams said. "There was no other way to get people out."

The thieves dropped him off at the convention center, where he stayed until the troops arrived.

Though there have been reports of shootings and several rapes, the crowd at the convention center does not appear to have degenerated into the kind of chaos and violence seen at the Superdome.

Physically, however, the masses at the center might have been in worse condition than those at the stadium, which was at least prepped as a storm shelter.

People at the convention center had received a single deposit of food and water, dropped from a helicopter, since Katrina's strike. The drop caused a riot; Williams, an Army veteran, said he feared the people clambering onto the pallet of food as it neared the ground were going to pull the helicopter into the parking lot. The craft never returned.

Children slept on laps and on the ground. There was an elderly emphysema patient. A diabetic. The boy suffering from sickle cell anemia, his eyes puffy and his skin yellowish-brown.

The troops arrived Friday, ready for anything.

"You've got to do something," said the nurse in the New Orleans T-shirt.

"We'll get you some help as soon as some people get here," Lt. James Magee said as the troops arrived. "OK?"

Inside, human waste covered the floor. An elderly woman tumbled out of her wheelchair and landed on the ground. Her housedress was soiled. A man had poured fruit punch into an industrial-size bottle of floor cleaner and was drinking it with a straw.

"If you kept a dog in an environment like this, they would arrest you for animal cruelty," said Cindy Davis, 39, the nurse, who had been separated from her group while caring for a patient and stranded at the convention center three days ago. "It's like a cesspool."

Frankie Estes, 80, said she was glad to finally see the troops. It was a glimmer of hope. Friday night marked her fifth night sleeping on the sidewalk in front of the center.

"I haven't had food or water for three days," she said. "I didn't know if I was going to make it."

By Friday night, dinner had been served to a seemingly endless line of refugees. Helicopters had begun descending on the convention center, airlifting the most critically ill. The troops had found their mission. It just wasn't what they thought it was going to be. [/quote:5ab38]
http://prisonplanet.com/Pages/Sept05/030905mission.htm

======================

Request for help on the 28th:

http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Rel ... equest.pdf

I bet Bush did it....After all, everything is his fault.

Being a smartass doesn't make you a better debater.

Funny. I keep wondering what this has to do with homeland security. I think it will go down as one of the biggest blunders of LA. Why in the heck is everybody sitting around waiting for the feds to do something? LA is a big state, most of which is unaffected by the hurricane. Why can't the folks in LA go down there and help them out? I think the lack of response in more the LA governor's and NOLA mayor's fault than the fed government. Have we become so dependent on the federal aid that we can't even get off our arses and walk out of NOLA? (I love the story of the kid that took a school bus full of folks to Houston and everybody on the bus pitched in for gas....apparently they weren't taught the proper amount of dependence in school. They were supposed to wait in their flooded homes and curse the government. rolleyes: ) And is it the feds fault that folks are shooting each other? Or stealing big screen TV's? That's just stupid.

I've been thinking the same thing. People kept saying that they saw this coming and the NO paper wrote an expose on this a few years ago. They should know better than anyone to get the fuck out of Dodge when these things come there way. The local authorities should have had a better evacuation plan for the poor folks.

That being said, people get complacent and most probably wouldn't have left even if transportation was provided for them. The people who stayed would have been right if the levees hadn't failed after the storm had passed. Although, I suspect that there would have been resistance and outrage if the government, federal or local, try to force people to evacuate. After all, a lot of the people said they stayed to protect their property from looters. They knew who lived among them.

Anyway, there is enough blame to go around, from the President on down.

[url=http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?article=31346&section=104:cd064]Fearing riots, Guard rejects food airdrops[/url:cd064]

Straight from the horses mouth:

[quote:094d7]In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume primary responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort. The new Department will also prioritize the important issue of citizen preparedness. Educating America's families on how best to prepare their homes for a disaster and tips for citizens on how to respond in a crisis will be given special attention at DHS.[/quote:094d7]

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/theme_home2.jsp

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/theme_home2.jsp[/quote:a81c0]

Bingo biggrin:

You really need to calm down.

[quote:ee0d8]entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort[/quote:ee0d8]

There's two parts here. Before and after. The quote from HS is obviously after the fact.

I'm not sure what is being debated here.

There's two parts here. Before and after. The quote from HS is obviously after the fact.

I'm not sure what is being debated here.[/quote:a863c]

You know that is how he is....Politics are like sex to the man. TGB likes his shit rough.

[quote="Short Hand":ced6e]

You know that is how he is....Politics are like sex to the man. TGB likes his shit rough.[/quote:ced6e]

Well, since we're trying to be clever - if Politics is like sex - that must be why you never, EVER get it - and about the only one who will ever give you the time of day - is you.

rolleyes:

I know that we have put this under the department, I just don't understand what it has to with it. And what I really don't understand is why folks sit and wait for somebody else to do something. Why didn't the Governor cancel school statewide for a few days and send every bus in the state down to help evacuate? Maybe they don't want to spend their precious budget when they can let the feds spend theirs.

BTW - thanks for the link to HS. I hadn't even thought to look there to see what they say they are doing. Here is a link to the part of the site that shows how many meals, etc they are handing out, how many folks they are evacing etc:

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/display?th ... ntent=4772

The area they are trying to service covers 90,000 square miles! ed:

[quote="TGB!":8d344][quote="Short Hand":8d344]

You know that is how he is....Politics are like sex to the man. TGB likes his shit rough.[/quote:8d344]

Well, since we're trying to be clever - if Politics is like sex - that must be why you never, EVER get it - and about the only one who will ever give you the time of day - is you.

rolleyes: [/quote:8d344]


happy: biggrin:


beer: dance:

[img]http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/dd3s22.jpg[/img]

http://www.zippyvideos.com/891102377101 ... in-walmart

[quote="TGB!":58fee][quote="Short Hand":58fee]

You know that is how he is....Politics are like sex to the man. TGB likes his shit rough.[/quote:58fee]

Well, since we're trying to be clever - if Politics is like sex - that must be why you never, EVER get it - and about the only one who will ever give you the time of day - is you.

rolleyes: [/quote:58fee]

Yes

The AP is reporting that NOPD killed 5 to 6 armed men and woulded 2 to 3 others who were shooting at US Army Corps of Engineer contractors doing repair work. What the fuck is wrong with these people? I'm glad this shit didn't go unchecked.

The story is changing constantly. There is a lot of misinformation out there.

First:
[url=http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168457,00.html:59078]New Orleans Cops Shoot Eight Gunmen[/url:59078]

Then:

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050904/ap_on_re_us/katrina_shootings_hk1:59078]Gunmen Attack Contractors on La. Bridge[/url:59078]

Now:
[url=http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Hurricane_Katrina/0,,2-10-1942_1765151,00.html:59078]New Orleans: Police kill army contractors[/url:59078]

[quote:8bac5]The United States Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is a Cabinet department of the federal government of the United States that is concerned with protecting America's people from harm and its property from damage. This department was created primarily from a conglomeration of existing federal agencies in response to the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.[/quote:8bac5]

[quote:8bac5]Homeland security or homeland defense is a neologism referring to domestic governmental actions justified by potential guerrilla attacks or terrorism. The term became prominent in the United States following the September 11, 2001 Terrorist Attack, although it was used less frequently before that incident.

Such domestic governmental actions include:

* Emergency mobilization, including volunteer medical, police, and fire personnel
* New domestic surveillance and spying efforts, particularly with respect to immigration, transportation, military installations, and utilities
* Secret arrests and detentions
* Infrastructure protection
* Border control
[/quote:8bac5]

[url=http://rawstory.com/news/2005/July_2005_article_reveals_Red_Cross_told_poor_Your e_on_your_o_0902.html:8bac5]Revealed: New Orleans told poor: 'On your own'[/url:8bac5]

[url=http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05246/565143.stm:8bac5]Red Cross Barred by Homeland Security][/url:8bac5]
[quote:8bac5]"The Homeland Security Department has requested and continues to request that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans," said Renita Hosler, spokeswoman for the Red Cross.[/quote:8bac5]

TGB! your right, the State Government did fail on some levels, but to say that the Federal Government is immune to any criticism is an obvious sign of your blind support for your own party and your un-willingness to challenge your own ideals or even put things into perspective. The US Government on a Federal and State level failed in a big way, 100 Billion dollars (Which we don’t have.) and possibly ten-thousand dead (Mostly poor people who didn’t have means to leave.) FEMA is part of Homeland Security; FEMA has to run through Homeland Security not the other way around. Besides FEMA is run by a Bush crony who has been criticized before.

Michael D. Brown
[quote:8bac5] In January 2005, U.S. Rep. Robert Wexler publically urged President Bush to fire Brown, citing reports that FEMA disbursed $30 million in disaster relief funds for Hurricane Frances to residents of Miami, Florida, a city which was not affected by the hurricane. Brown admitted to $12 million in overpayments, but denied any serious mistakes, blaming a computer glitch. Wexler repeated his call in April to Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, citing new reports that FEMA sent inspectors with criminal records of robbery and embezzlement to do damage assessments.
In the aftermath of 2005's Hurricane Katrina being named an "Incident of National Significance", Brown was named the Principal Federal Official and placed in charge of the government's response by Homeland Security Director Michael Chertoff. CNN is reporting increasing anger filling the region due to what seems like complacency and tardiness from FEMA, coupled with an unsympathetic response from Director Brown, who lays some of the blame on the victims for their suffering.
In a September 3, 2005 editorial, New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd called Brown a "blithering idiot" for not being aware that 15,000 hurricane victims were stranded in the New Orleans Convention Center, after this had been widely reported. [11][/quote:8bac5]
[url=http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/myrtlebeachonline/news/politics/12554958.htm:8bac5]Unlikely Background[/url:8bac5]

TGB! About the school busses let’s see you send a fleet of buses out of a city that’s already in the processes of a mass “exodus” while Gas stations are swamped full of people trying to get gas, and when did the Mayor call for Greyhound busses? . Besides would you want to sit on a bathroom less uncomfortable school bus five hours to Texas? Plus were would you find these bus drivers? Chances have it a lot of them either left town. And how would get these people together? The plan at the superdome was to get people in so that for one they would be somewhere safe and two so that they could have hub were survivors could come and were the supplies could be given. Obviously if that was their intention it didn’t work out.


TGB! Stop pretending you’re the undisputed overlord of the political forums, people who participate in this forum for the most part find a way to rebut others points of view without acting like some elitist.

[quote="TGB!":f049d]The US Gov. isnt on a state level. It is the feds. State Gov. is the stave level. [/quote:f049d]

Yeah? I’ll admit I made a mistake in wording and in my train of though. I know that the Federal Government is separate of State Government. But it’s not like they aren’t un-related and have no association with one another. In any case they both failed.

[quote="TGB!":f049d]We "dont have" alot of cash - are you going to blast the Department Of Education for taking money that could have gone to NO (nevermind that arguing about the Leeve project is moot as the project WOULDNT have been completed anyway)? [/quote:f049d]

No I was going to bash Bush and his Iraq war, I was also going to bash the billions of pork barrel spending, and while I’m at it I’ll bash the “Republicans” in the Senate, House, and White House who call themselves Republicans but don’t hold the standard of being “fiscally conservative”. Oh and a shining example of gross pork barrel spending would be the High Way Transportation bill passed not to long ago.

[quote="TGB!":f049d]And who should know the locations of transients - the FEDS. . .or City Government? [/quote:f049d]

Obviously the city but I doubt the city even cared about them anyway, and you seem to think I’m defending the State Government, I’m not.

[quote="TGB!":f049d]I dont know how things work in your state, but school buses (along with Firetrucks, Cop Cars, Ambulances) dont "load up" at the pump. They have private facilities to do that. As for the rest of your response - youre making excuses for why the government most famaliar to NO residents DIDNT have an immediate evacuation plan available. [/quote:f049d]

I was wrong about the gas stations, I overlooked that. That still doesn’t change anything. Try massing thousands of busses and people in a day and get them out of a city that’s already in the process of departure. Besides what would your evacuation plan be TGB if you were in charge? I really don’t feel like defending Louisiana state government because obviously they messed up too. It was really never my intention to defend them.


[quote="TGB!":f049d]Prove me wrong and sure - I will. . .until then -[/quote:f049d]

Thanks for proving my point in the same thread.

Wow - That is VERY cool of the EU....I'm impressed.

they didnt kill the contractors , they killed a bunch of thugs that opened fire on the contractors. why are the thugs shooting at people trying to help ?

There's two parts here. Before and after. The quote from HS is obviously after the fact.

I'm not sure what is being debated here.[/quote:5a40e]
It would be illegal by US law for the president top have used federal troops to police or aid the hurricane area. Only the national guard can do that, and because the national guard is not a federal branch, only the governer of a state can order the use of NG troops. The MAyor didnt evenm begin an evacuation until the president ordered him to, and then ignored his fleet of 500+ buses, which are now swamped, and sent people to the superdome. Then he failed to provide food or facilities at the superdome. WHy is this the presidents responsibility, when the fault lies at the local level?

It is easy to blame the federal government for any problems that overwhelm a local government

It would be illegal by US law for the president top have used federal troops to police or aid the hurricane area. Only the national guard can do that, and because the national guard is not a federal branch, only the governer of a state can order the use of NG troops. The MAyor didnt evenm begin an evacuation until the president ordered him to, and then ignored his fleet of 500+ buses, which are now swamped, and sent people to the superdome. Then he failed to provide food or facilities at the superdome. WHy is this the presidents responsibility, when the fault lies at the local level?[/quote:45ce3]

Look, people died. A lot more people died than should have. I'm sure a lot of people died due to red tape. Frankly, I don't care if it was local or federal governments fault. They both shit the bed.

The local government had already requested support from teh federal government before the hurricane hit. They had said their resources were overwhelmed. In the aftermath, the federal agencies failed to respond in an appropriate fashion. I think most would agree.

Here is the City of New Orleans official "Emergency Preparedness" site. It outlines what they are supposed to do in emergencies and what their official plan was in case of a hurricane. Intersting reading.

http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26