The newest realism mod
Crow King's CKR realism mod v1.0
is here. I am in no way affiliated with Crow King but I have played this mod and it's awesome. I only played it on one server that had it is by far the most realistic and authentic WW2 Mohaa mod of them all.

Here are the details directly form the details.txt file in the mod.

* Grenades: You start with 3 and they can be thrown a bit further.

* Bazooka: You are limited to 3 shells, move slower and must take time to wrap the shell wire when reloading (about 9 sec total reload time) since you're not working in a team.

* Bazooka Shell: Much faster, leaves less smoke trail.

* Panzerschrek: You are limited to 3 shells, move slower, and must take time to pull both triggers when reloading (about 6 sec total reload time) since you're not working in a team.

* Panzerschrek Shell: Much faster (but not as fast as the bazooka).

* BAR: You start with a full bandolier (12 clips / 240 rds), move slower, have a little different recoil, and do the full damage of an 06.

* MP44: You start with two ammo pouches (6 clips / 180 rds), move tiny bit slower (but faster than BAR), and do more damage.

* M1 Garand: You start with two bandoliers (16 clips / 128 rds), move at full speed and do the full damage of an 06.

* KAR 98k: You start with 2 ammo pouches (12 strippers / 60 rds), move at full speed and do the full damage of a 7.92x57.

* Kar 98k Sniper: You start with 2 ammo pouches (60 rds), move at full speed, work the bolt as fast as the Kar 98k, shoot a little more accurately with the scope, take longer to reload and do the full damage of a 7.92x57.

* 03A4 Springfield: You start with 1 bandolier (60 rds), move at full speed, have the right scope power (2.5x), take longer to reload and do the full damange of an 06.

* M1A1 Thompson: You start with 2 ammo pouches (6 clips / 180 rds), have a little different recoil, move at full speed and do more damange (not quite as much as the MP44).

* MP40: You start with 2 ammo pouches (6 clips / 192 rds), have a little different recoil, move at full speed and do more damage (less than the Thompson).

* P38: You start with 3 clips (24 rds) and do more damage (same as MP40).

* 1911: You start with 3 clips (21 rds) and do more damange (same as Thompson).

* Shotgun: You start with two boxes of ammo (50rds), have fewer pellets (00 buck has 12 pellets, not 20), take longer to reload and do slightly less damage.


Notes
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- weapons that do less damage tend to have higher rates of fire.

- The damage done by each round is as follows:
9mm: 60
.45 ACP: 75
7.92x33: 80
30-06: 104
7.92x57: 106
12gauge: 185 (15 per .38 caliber pellet)


This mod eliminates the Omaha beach allied snipers problem, the shotgun problem, and the rocket launcher problem, and the grenade spamming problem.

You have to fear being shot now because weapons are as lethal as they should have been all along. The game no longer feals like a slow version of quake in WW2 clothing.

Give it a try. Server admins check this one out.

any chance you can compare it as thoroughly to the current CPR realism mod as you do here to the normal?

How exactly does this solve the sniper problem on Omaha?

It does sound great, but most people feel grenades travel too far as it is. Yes you could throw real grenades a good ways, but they were heavy so once the arc was reached and it came down and landed, or hit a wall, it would lose a lot of energy and not go very far after that. The ones in the game go as far or farther on the ground, after hitting two walls than the do in the air. What is up with that?

Sounds good. Gonna check it out.

Yes the grenades act like rubber crazy balls. They should lose much momentum with each impact.

Is it any good. I'll try I guess....

yeah i agree the grenades are like rubber balls. but ill check it out. thanks for the heads up.

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I WAS WRONG IM SORRY!
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> The only ones who have seen the end of the war, have died<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[This message has been edited by JwSPiTFiRE (edited February 07, 2002).]

Wasn't Covak and Pooter's realism mod the first? Hench the name CPR?

yeah let me down load it right now!

Err....

You are not authorized to view this page

WhoooPeee!!!

Ok...working now..sheesh.

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http://home.socal.rr.com/smokeyoass/spine1.gif "Listen up you stinking maggots. It seems you just don't get it. Well, I've been appointed to inform ya', your days are numbered. You would cry, you would scream if you knew half the things I've seen. Please please just do as I say. Repent and leave your evil ways." - Clutch
VISIT GF CLAN SITE EDITED FOR COWARDS

[This message has been edited by Spineharvester[GF] (edited February 07, 2002).]

Who are you guys to say your mod is more realistic then a large company that hired experienced software engineers to do there best to match the WW2 era, you guys are nuts at least call it something other then a "realism" mod.

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Und wenn du dich auf den Kopf stellst!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JwSPiTFiRE:
MANNNNNNN.....ALL THIS GUY DID WAS COPY ELVITES CPR REALISM MOD! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, Elvite here. I didn't write the CPR mod, Jw. I have modded many things on our server, like making Round-based and Objective maps work in 1 map rotation and changed some of the localization text, (look for official mod release soon), but that's it. we use of CPR is the love child of Covak and Pooter.

As for CKR, I'll have to give it a try. If it is if superior to CPR, perhaps Burning Bridge will give it a run.



[This message has been edited by Elvite (edited February 07, 2002).]

Well, we have this MOD now running on our own server....so I will try it out tonight.

[GF]West Stomping Grounds 2

Come on by and check it out.

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http://home.socal.rr.com/smokeyoass/spine1.gif "Listen up you stinking maggots. It seems you just don't get it. Well, I've been appointed to inform ya', your days are numbered. You would cry, you would scream if you knew half the things I've seen. Please please just do as I say. Repent and leave your evil ways." - Clutch
VISIT GF CLAN SITE EDITED FOR COWARDS

Now just hang on a minute there folks.

Are some of you saying Chevy is just a Ford with a different name on it?

There are a lot of differences in the CKR mod. Also if you had thrown more rocks as a kid,you'ld of noticed they bonce around a lot too.

I played around with the mod yesterday alot and it comes closer to being right on than any other mod of this type to date.

I'm sure as time passes Crow King or someone else will do one even better.

But to bad mouth it just because a frag doesn't stick like glue when it contacts a hard surface is a little much.

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Shoot Low Boys
They're Ridin Ponies

I just got off stompin grounds 2 after a couple of hours of play to give someone else a chance.(aren't I sweet)

Anyway I had a ball,the snipers still got me time to time,if I gave them the opportunity.

This was the first time I played the CKR mod with a full house and the difference between CPR and CKR is noticable,to me at least.

The grenades can be thrown along way if you hold down the key longer,from one end of the street to the other in The Hunt map.

Thanks there Harvester for the server with CKR on it. It's got my vote.


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Shoot Low Boys
They're Ridin Ponies

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Overon:



* Kar 98k Sniper: You start with 2 ammo pouches (60 rds), move at full speed, work the bolt as fast as the Kar 98k, shoot a little more accurately with the scope, take longer to reload and do the full damage of a 7.92x57.

* 03A4 Springfield: You start with 1 bandolier (60 rds), move at full speed, have the right scope power (2.5x), take longer to reload and do the full damange of an 06.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok this mod just screams sniper whore. http://www.alliedassault.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Hey guys......
Just wanted to appoligize..... i guess maybe i should get my facts streight before i open my mouth.... and the rest of you ....u dont have to talk crap back to me....just tell me that i was wrong. And for the CKR maker....i also appoligize for bad mouthing you mod....i realize you did put in alot of time for this mod....best of luck to you and i will be checkin out your mod. Again sorry guys.... ill see you all around..

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http://www.yoursighost.com/users/JwSPiTFiRE/sig2.jpg
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> The only ones who have seen the end of the war, have died<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm glad to hear some folks are looking forward to playing the mod. I played it for the first time tonight outside of my test server and I'll withold my (biased) opinions. I would like to hear from you, though. My e-mail is crow-king@home.com.

Also......

I didn't modify any of the physics variables around the grenades except for the upper end of the toss velocity, but if enough folks think they're acting silly, I'll see what I can do.

Re: copying CPR, CKR is not a copy of CPR. CPR did a good job of addressing many of the gross problems with the original multiplay to make it less arcade like. CKR is a realism mod in the true sense of the word. I like to play CPR when I want a little more forgiving game. I will play CKR when I'm serious about it. I don't play the unmodded game unless I can't find a good realism server.

There are quite a few differences and all I can say is, play it and see for yourself. The weapons are properly scaled in power and lethality (which they were not in CPR). The starting ammo is right. You can't reload a weapon with an internal clip like you were dropping BBs in your BB gun. The shotgun uses the right ammo for the time. You have to arm your rocket before you can fire it (and each is relatively timed appropriately). The Weaver scope of the 03 is 2.5x and crappy (like it really was). The 98k is more accurate. The bolt throws are identical for the 98ks. Blah, blah, blah.

There are still a lot of "unreal" things in the game and I'll tackle them when I can. But I wanted to get this out so folks who wanted something like it would have a choice. These "mods" aren't really mods at all, just little toys to keep us busy until the tools become available to really mod the game. Enjoy!!

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"If your philosophy does not produce corn, I don't want to hear about it." - Red Bear

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JwSPiTFiRE:
MANNNNNNN.....ALL THIS GUY DID WAS COPY ELVITES CPR REALISM MOD! Elvite was the first and original person to start the realsim mod.....check his out..his is the best out there......This guy just stole all of elvites stuff and called it a different name.... see he calls is ckr lol haha the original is cpr.....Everyone go to Burning Bridge..the best cpr room around....trust me on this one...i know elvite and i know this guy is just copying him.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Might I suggest you grow up? He changed alot. He worked hard on it. Lets not get into this 'mod rivalry.' We don't need that shit. Its server side, so the clients don't even need it. More realism is good, so if they're running CPR or CKR, I don't care, as long as it works. From what I see here, I like CKR's realism mod alot more. He implemented a way to stop the omaha sniping (I think... the scope zoom is what does it) and he made a way to make rockets realistic but still useful. CPR is still good, but CKR is just as good.

Don't be an ass because he made "another" realism mod. If you don't like it, don't run it on your server. And thats even IF you run a server. Ass.

No problems from me JW...i'll be lookin for you.

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Shoot Low Boys
They're Ridin Ponies

I don't think any game or version of a game is being force on anyone to play it.

Some of you amaze me with your rants about the subject.

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Shoot Low Boys
They're Ridin Ponies

Right on Patton. I didn't like the CPR mod that much, but I am willing to try this one. Hopefully servers will have it soon so I can.

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~Pvt MaNgE~
141st Infantry
Official BTFH

~MaNgE~'s MoH Mod Page

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LOL to suggest that the corporation with the big designers even qualifies for realistic is just plain silly. Anyone who plays the normal mod knows it is not remotely realistic in terms of weapon damage. They were looking for something that would be fun to play, that kids could play and not feel like they can't live for 10 seconds before somebody wacks them.

But some of use WANT realism. WANT a game where one round from an M-1 kills you, like it did in real life.

I like CPR a lot. I look forward to CKR. Burning Bridge IS the best server for what I like so far. Does not mean CKR servers won't also be fun to play. Don't know have not tried them. Had to stop playing for a few days cause I was dreaming I was in the game all night long. My knees hurt in the morning from running in my sleep for hours.

But I want to try Crow King's mod.

Also, I was the one who raised the question about the grenades traveling too far after impact as it is. Not sure how that was considered flaming or whatever. I was just surprised they would want them to travel even farther. That is certainly NOT realistic. But anyway, neither I nor anybody else said anything about them sticking to a wall or stopping dead. I just don't think they should behave like tennis balls or be able to be thrown over two story buildings and then roll and bounce for another 50 yards.

But as for Crow King and CPR (which I always thought stood for David Crosby's new band), the more experimenting with realism the better. Keep em coming

Sounds promising... but i like the game by itself. (i hate snipers though so i guess ill have to download)

[This message has been edited by newbieassulted (edited February 07, 2002).]

JwSPiTFiRE... are you an idiot? Elvite's CPR... riiighhtt. Covak and Pooter's Realism... that's what CPR stands for numb nuts. I don't remember seeing a realism mod made by Elvite (there may be one... but I haven't seen it). You probably saw a server that had Elvite's and CPR in it (which means the server had Elvite's vote kick and CPR mods running). Please don't say anything unless you know what you're talking about... thank you.

If you look at the scripts and the contents of CPR and compare it to CKR you will see that no one "stole" anything from anyone else.

But there are similarities of course. That's because if you want to change the damage each bullet does from each gun, you change the same variable. That's not "stealing" anything.

Read the text files and compare them to see what has changed.

You will notice that the CKR mod has many of the same things the CPR mod has but the CKR has a lot more and is much more comprehensive. It addresses movement speeds, rocket reload speeds, weapons damage, starting ammo ammounts, sniper zooming amounts, sniper bolt speeds etc. Compare that toe the CPR mod and you will see which one is clearly superior.

That would be the CKR mod.

[This message has been edited by Overon (edited February 07, 2002).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Patton:
Might I suggest you grow up? He changed alot. He worked hard on it. Lets not get into this 'mod rivalry.' We don't need that shit. Its server side, so the clients don't even need it. More realism is good, so if they're running CPR or CKR, I don't care, as long as it works. From what I see here, I like CKR's realism mod alot more. He implemented a way to stop the omaha sniping (I think... the scope zoom is what does it) and he made a way to make rockets realistic but still useful. CPR is still good, but CKR is just as good.

Don't be an ass because he made "another" realism mod. If you don't like it, don't run it on your server. And thats even IF you run a server. Ass.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice pistol whippin' w/ yer pearl handles General. heh. I do agree w/ all that's said about CKR...CPR is good as well, but CKR does have a bit more fun to it. It just balances the MP game much better, eg. the sniper and bazooka modifiers. Also, I'm not a ballistics expert, but shouldn't take a .30 caliber round from an M-1 Garand, four hits before the receiving target drops. It's good to see everyone working so hard to help make the game that much more enjoyable. All servers should run anyone of these mods.


[This message has been edited by HeatMiser (edited February 07, 2002).]

Die Fledermause:

I didn't mean to come across as if you were flamein,sorry.

When I was a kid,there was a Army depot not far from where we lived. You could go out there and buy inert pineapples for a quarter.

Even being little guys playin Army,we could toss them a pretty good ways and they would roll a lot too.(ever been hit in the head with one?talk about a pop knot)

I'm sure anything the majority agrees that needs to be altered,ole Crow King can fix.

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Shoot Low Boys
They're Ridin Ponies

Does this mod:

1. Get rid of sniper 'only' in Omaha.

2. Do you still die if you are shot in the foot - because that's not realistic.

Have you figured out how to change the specific damages of each body location - instead of just tweaking weapons?

Thanks

quiet -

To remove the sniper in the Omaha map only is probably going to require modifying the map script itself. This turns it into a client side mod, which must be downloaded by each person playing the game. Very difficult to coordinate. Without a selective ability to allocate weapons on the server side (it's all or nothing), I think the best way is to modify the rifle itself until it is more realistic for the map. There's a reason why the Allies didn't attack the beach with boat loads of snipers! We just need to keep adjusting things til they fit.

I've taken the first step by changing the scope to it's real world magnification. I tested it the other night on a server running CKR And it did reduce the problem, but I don't think it's quite there yet. The second step is to adjust accuracy and recoil. A shot that far across a windy beach involves a lot more than just centering the crosshair and pulling the trigger.

As for the "death from footshot" thing, have you actually seen it happen? I suppose it it possible, but when I get shot in the game, it's usually from a much more lethal spot. Is this a real problem or just a theoretical one? If you're experiencing it, let me know and I'll see what I can do.

The Q3 engine does track where you get hit and I know where the scripts are that track it in the single player game. I need to do some testing to see if I can affect MP and adjust damage via a script. If not, it will need to wait until we have better modding tools.

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http://www.libertyleather.com/images/crowsig.jpg
"If your philosophy does not produce corn, I don't want to hear about it." - Red Bear

Yah it's for real, try sniping someone in the foot.

Yah limiting the sniper ability would work.

Let's get an SDK...then we can talk about some mods.


[This message has been edited by Johnny Alpha (edited February 08, 2002).]

As for it being unrealistic to get shot in the foot and die: When you get shot in the foot or hand and it takes you out of the match it is not really suppose to mean you died. It means you were injured enough that you were no longer an effective threat.

In real combat training and situations they typically use language like "the target was neutralized" etc. They don't care if the target is dead, they just want the target down and staying down so it won't cause anymore trouble. The goal is not to kill the enemy it is to remove the enemy's ability to make war or pose a threat. It that means killing him, fine. If it means wounding him or rendering him incapacitated enough that he can no longer shoot or observe or advance, fine.

And just like with aircraft, an ace got credit for a "kill" regardless of whether they enemy pilot or crew survived or not. All that mattered was destroying the aircraft.

That is one reason casualites traditionally include both wounded and killed in action. All that really matters from a tactical or strategic perspective is rendering as many of the enemy unable to make war as possible. If that means shooting off four of his toes, or shooting off his head, it leads to the same desired result.

So if you get sniped in the foot and it disables you enough that you are down and stay down, well then, that is a "kill" in eyes of the game.



[This message has been edited by Die Fledermause (edited February 08, 2002).]

Hey Jonesy:

Just getting some of the arcade game play out is good enough for me. I understand there is just so much you can do with a video game.

I don't use frags very much anyway,there are plenty of others that do which is alright if you like to play that way.

Yes,holding down the fire key will very the distance of the throw,not alot but some and if you hit the right button,you can just toss them a very short ways and throw them low if someone is hiding under the bed.<BG>

Don't get me wrong,I like shooters and the run and gun type of play, but for me MoH turns me on being more on the true to life side.

There is enough room for both styles of play.
I respect that, so why can't others instead of raisein hell when one of us oddballs bring it up?

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Shoot Low Boys
They're Ridin Ponies

I understand your point, and it's a very good one. But this is about realism mods, and even when one is shot in the foot, he/she can still kill.

The best way to solve the sniper problem is make it more realistic.

Introduce sniper scope wobble and/or a restriction that prevents you form moving quickly or moving at all while zoomed in.

Nice idea overon who could run whithout wobbling.

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Starcraft is still good...... really I mean it.

I've already figured out a way to solve the sniper wobble problem, but unfortunately, it requires a client side mod. How many folks are going to be willing to download it? It can't be set up to autodownload from the server when you join (which would have really worked well since it is tiny in size).

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http://www.libertyleather.com/images/crowsig.jpg
"If your philosophy does not produce corn, I don't want to hear about it." - Red Bear

In the quest for more realism....we have also started the server with FF on now.

So, come on by and enjoy the game....we will not tolerate TKing retards.

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http://home.socal.rr.com/smokeyoass/spine1.gif "Listen up you stinking maggots. It seems you just don't get it. Well, I've been appointed to inform ya', your days are numbered. You would cry, you would scream if you knew half the things I've seen. Please please just do as I say. Repent and leave your evil ways." - Clutch
VISIT GF CLAN SITE EDITED FOR COWARDS

Wow! I must say I am impressed to see people apologizing for a change. That takes a big person. My compliments to you!

I really don't know how far a grenade can be thrown. My only complaint is that I don't think that if I threw a grenade at a wall 30 feet away, that it would bounce all the way back to me and kill me. That happens alot near the allied side of the bridge in Remagen.

My comment was aimed at the original game since I have yet to try CKR mod. I am ALL FOR realism mods, especially making automatic rifles more realistically powered. However, I would rather have FUN than complete realism.

You can't make it realistic anyway. For example, in real life I would be able to throw a grenade with more accuracy so it wouldn't hit the bottom of a bridge and come back. You really can't tell exactly what the path of the nade will be in the game. Not to mention the effect of holding the button longer for more distance. Not at all like throwing harder in real life. What can you do, make a grenade mouse that you throw in real life to control the game? Hmmm... KA-CHING! $$$


[This message has been edited by jonesy-the-cat (edited February 08, 2002).]

Yeah! Didn't you see Saving Private Ryan? That guy with the BAR was still in action after being shot. LOL!

One time I was killed by being machine gunned in the hand, which was the only part of me visible to the enemy. I think I also sniped someone in the hand one time, actually I think it was their gun, but whatever, I got a kill.

My thought on the hand-kill was like Der Fledermause above, you are out of the game even if not actually dead. However hitting the gun should just render the gun unusable. You could chuck it and pick up another.