Terri Schiavo
 

i think the US goverment is putting its nose into something that it has no right to be invovled in, if this woman's husband wants to have to feeding tube removed what business does the goverment have in trying to keep this woman alive, then to make matters worse they want her to appear in from the senate at some hearings.

feel free to share your thoughts on this matter

For once I completely agree with you.

Edit:

Oh yeah, anyone heard of the "Texas Futile Care Law"? No? Well, Bush signed a law in Texas when he was governor that grants hospitals the right to remove life support if an ethics comittie agrees with the treatment team, regardless of the patient's family's wishes.

Double standard here, no?

http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/health ... t_sto.html

Double standard, In all reality and technically by law A spouse or parent has ruling say in that matter in my opinion. If the spouse does not want to see their signifigant other in that condition and or doesnt want to see them suffer any more than they have all the right to have the plug pulled with their signed consent. As same for parents if the spouse does not want the responsibility or there is no spouse the parents or in some cases legal guardians have all the say. The government should shut theyre damn mouths and the doctors, or those qualified to carry out the orders should.
In new hampshire the motto is Live Free or Die, if you are gunna be on life support for the rest of your life you arent exactly living free are you?

My initial reaction to this was shock that the government would stick their noses in this case. After seeing the family interviewed I'm not so sure how I feel about it.

I guess where I'm coming from is a sense of empathy for the mother and sister that were interviewed. I have two daughters. Do I want some future husband to make decisions about their lives? In most cases I would have to face the fact that he would have the legal authority and that I no longer had much authority. But what if one of them were in a vegetative state like this girl, but I knew that they had been having marital trouble before it happened? Or that I suspected the husband of causing this state? (the sister claims that the cause of the coma was never investigated - sounded like she was suspicious of the husband) Does that change things? For me it does. I would be fighting just like this family to get control back. And if I had exhausted all avenues through the courts (which it looks like they have) I would probably go to Congress begging for help, just like they have.

So even though my inital reaction is that the government needs to stay our private lives - I must admit that I would be doing the same thing.

I also started having a problem with this when I found out it was not a simple case of turning off an artificial respirator. I think they have already done that and she was able to start breathing on her own. Now, in order for her to die, they have to starve her to death. That's a tough one to accept.

it boils down to one thing and one thng only. Did she request not to live under these circumstances. IF she told her husband she didnt want to be kept artifically alive, then pull it. If she didnt, then let her veg away. I wouldnt want to live like that and I have told my wife that. I would hate for my family to get involved with that decision. I dont believe the dad at all. I saw an interview with the husband and I believe him

[quote="Sgt>Stackem":7b56b]it boils down to one thing and one thng only. Did she request not to live under these circumstances. [/quote:7b56b]

That is what I'm struggling with. The sister says that the only people that she supposedly told was her husband and "members of his family". It seems to me that if she felt that way about it, she would have told her own family at some point in her life.

The first time I heard of this story - maybe a year ago? - I saw the husband and believed him. I'm not so sure anymore. I don't think I've seen the father - or at least not recently.

I wouldn't wanna live that way either - but I would want to be sure that there was no chance of coming back before the plug was pulled. The doctors who know this case have conflicting opinions on the diagnosis.

Thanks for the article ninty9. At the end it says that under 60% of those polled were even following the case closely. Only 26% of young Americans. I had the same reaction as those polled until I saw the sister interviewed by Larry King. I wonder if these folks would feel differently if they could talk to the family. Or if they thought about her lying on a bed hungry as hell, with her stomach cramping, for two weeks, or longer.

I really do have a problem with the government getting involved in most cases like this. And I wouldn't have any problem at all pulling the tube in this case if either the girl had written her wishes down, or if both sides of her family were in agreement that she wanted the tube pulled. The problem in my mind is whether or not her husband, who knew her for a few years and is now ready to re-marry (he's engaged) should make that decision or whether her parents, who gave birth to her, should make that decision.

I'm not sure there is a good answer to that. If she felt strongly enough about it she should have told everyone instead of just mentioning it in passing at a party or something.

if this case didnt make the news Im not sure if I would have discussed it with my wife. This case is a no win situation. She is in a sad state of life. I hope her suffering is over soon. When you see someone you love suffer for so long there comes a time when you know it is better for them to go, I hope all works out for the best ( I know it wont)

i wish there was assisted suicide for some cases like this. If they pull the feeding tube and she can still feel, it would suck taking a few weeks to boil down to nothing and starve to death.

[quote="Sgt>Stackem":8dc4f]if this case didnt make the news Im not sure if I would have discussed it with my wife.[/quote:8dc4f]

I talked to my wife and family a long time ago. I guess it has to do with the fact that the Karen Ann Quinlan case was big news when I was in High School.

FYI - for the youngsters ....
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On April 15, 1975, Karen Quinlan lapsed into a coma, apparently as a result of consuming alcohol and drugs. Karen was brought unconscious to a hospital emergency room. After her condition stabilized, feeding required a nasogastric tube (artificial nutrition and hydration) and breathing required a respirator. She was eventually diagnosed as being in a permanent coma, i.e., a permanent vegetative state in current terminology. Karen Quinlan’s father sought court appointment as guardian of her person for the express purpose of authorizing removal of her respirator, whether or not she died as a consequence. He was opposed not only by Karen’s physicians but by the local prosecutor and the state attorney general.

The New Jersey trial court denied Mr. Quinlan’s request to be appointed guardian and also his request to terminate the use of the respirator, holding in effect that the decision was solely that of the attending physicians acting in accordance with prevailing medical standards. It rejected the argument that there is a viable legal distinction between ordinary and extraordinary means to sustain life. The New Jersey Supreme Court reversed the decision and granted Mr. Quinlan’s request. Karen’s physicians gradually weaned her from the respirator during May of 1976. She continued to breathe on her own. Her father did not want artificial nutrition and hydration stopped, though the Supreme Court gave permission for all life-support to be withdrawn. Karen lived another ten years. In its considerations regarding this case, the New Jersey Supreme Court advocated giving decision-making authority to a hospital ethics committee (which were still largely non-existent at the time). As a result of this case, ethics committees grew in number and debate arose regarding their appropriate role and authority. Most experts now agree that any authority an ethics committee has is limited and must appropriately respect the decision-making authority that properly belongs to patients, surrogates, and care-providers. [Source: In Re Quinlan, 355 A.2d. (N.J. 1976).]

What bothers me about this is the fact the family wants to keep her alive. Why? She has been in a vegetated state for the last 15 years. She has no chance of recovering, the video the entertainment media shows of her in the bed is four years old, since that time she has probably even regressed further.

On a side note I found it funny how they inedited her and marked her as a protected witness.

PS -
Veggy Woman, and Steriods in Fagball > Means for war. GG

Discuss it with a lawyer to put a clause in your will that states if you get into that state they can pull the plug. If it's in writing, your good to go.

I really don't like seeing this in the news. Its none of my business. It's not the governments business. The family should have enough competence to decide for themselves what they want to do instead of arguing through the courts and government.

I heard the husband was abusive--is this true? If so then this may change the whole situation.

beer:

That really applies ot taxes and slavery and shit. I hate having to buy anything out of state cause then if its $.99 I actually have to pay like $1.05 instead of $.99
oh and government should sftu and get back to blowing shit up.

[quote="Unknown_Sniper":116c6]That really applies ot taxes and slavery and shit. I hate having to buy anything out of state cause then if its $.99 I actually have to pay like $1.05 instead of $.99
oh and government should sftu and get back to blowing shit up.[/quote:116c6]......... oOo:

[url=http://www.imageshack.us:f11b5][img]http://img177.exs.cx/img177/7206/drjack6hh.jpg[/img][/url:f11b5] loney:

If people want to die in the manner known as "assisted suicide" let them. Who the hell are you to tell them they have no control over their own lives.

You got a terminal disease and you are living in agony and want it to stop? End it.
You don't want that baby? Abort.

It's as simple as that it's none of your stupid Christian business, and the government has no right to get involved with an individual personal life.

Plus what ever happened to the States Rights, Smaller Government, and the Government out of peoples lives Republicans?

After reviewing the tape of Terri, I think I now know why she has been in a vegetative state so long....the radio in her room has been tuned to LiteFM all these years!


....either that, or she has been listening to Bill Frist drone on...and on....and on....and on....

here is something I founb about the real Michael Schiavo not the Michael Schiavo who has been crucified by lunatic, hypocritical, right wing so called christian conservatives sticking their noses in other people's business to further their own personal agenda. The Miami Herald did a very nice expose yesterday concerning the real Michael Schiavo. What did they uncover? Did you know that:
1. Shortly after Terri Schiavo was diagnosed with her condition, Mr. Schiavo went out and got himself a nursing degree so he could care for his wife. He stayed by her bedside nonstop for 3 years. Cleaning her, dressing her, even dabbing on makeup.
2. During the first 3 years of her hospitalization, Terri Schiavo received intensive physical therapy, to no avail. The rumors about Mr. Schiavo denying his wife physical therapy are pure, 100% unadulturated bullshit. After 3 years of no results, only then did he decide against any further therapy.
3. When his wife was first discharged from the hospital, Mr. Schiavo rented a huge house so her parents could live with them and help care for her. The parents did it for a year, then wigged out cause they could not deal with it anymore.
4. The insurance money ran out long ago. Terri Schiavo is on medicare.
5. Michael Schiavo's grandmother was placed on life support in spite of a living will directing against it. Mr. Schiavo had to locate the document and present it to doctors so the ventilator could be removed. It was at the grandmothers funeral that Mr. Schiavo claims his wife made the comment "I would not ever want to suffer the way your grandma did". Other people at the funeral recall her making the remark. But, because they are his family, some folks are sceptical.
6. Michael and Terri Schiavo lived together for 7 years and were married for 5. During that time, Terri Schiavo had been treated for an eating disorder. Said disorder was the reason leading to the chemical imbalance causing her condition.
8. Manufactured documents posted on the web by christian organizations claim that a Dr. D.L. Campbell examined Terri Schiavo and raised the possibility of domestic abuse. Only problem is that according to The Florida Board of Medicine, no doctor by that name has ever practiced medicine in Florida.
9. Michael Schiavo is employed by law enforcement.Would a person with a questionable backround get a job of that nature?
10. The nurse who claims Michael Schiavo directed her not to care for his wife was terminated by the Hospice Center for theft.
Just a few things that maybe some folks did not know. I am not at all good at cutting and pasting. anyone can go to http://www.herald.com
Type "Michael Schiavo loyal" into the search engine. Several articles will come up. You'd want the one from 3.22.05.

[quote="Sgt>Stackem":3c257]here is something I founb about the real Michael Schiavo not the Michael Schiavo who has been crucified by lunatic, hypocritical, right wing so called christian conservatives sticking their noses in other people's business to further their own personal agenda. The Miami Herald did a very nice expose yesterday concerning the real Michael Schiavo. What did they uncover? Did you know that:
1. Shortly after Terri Schiavo was diagnosed with her condition, Mr. Schiavo went out and got himself a nursing degree so he could care for his wife. He stayed by her bedside nonstop for 3 years. Cleaning her, dressing her, even dabbing on makeup.
2. During the first 3 years of her hospitalization, Terri Schiavo received intensive physical therapy, to no avail. The rumors about Mr. Schiavo denying his wife physical therapy are pure, 100% unadulturated bullshit. After 3 years of no results, only then did he decide against any further therapy.
3. When his wife was first discharged from the hospital, Mr. Schiavo rented a huge house so her parents could live with them and help care for her. The parents did it for a year, then wigged out cause they could not deal with it anymore.
4. The insurance money ran out long ago. Terri Schiavo is on medicare.
5. Michael Schiavo's grandmother was placed on life support in spite of a living will directing against it. Mr. Schiavo had to locate the document and present it to doctors so the ventilator could be removed. It was at the grandmothers funeral that Mr. Schiavo claims his wife made the comment "I would not ever want to suffer the way your grandma did". Other people at the funeral recall her making the remark. But, because they are his family, some folks are sceptical.
6. Michael and Terri Schiavo lived together for 7 years and were married for 5. During that time, Terri Schiavo had been treated for an eating disorder. Said disorder was the reason leading to the chemical imbalance causing her condition.
8. Manufactured documents posted on the web by christian organizations claim that a Dr. D.L. Campbell examined Terri Schiavo and raised the possibility of domestic abuse. Only problem is that according to The Florida Board of Medicine, no doctor by that name has ever practiced medicine in Florida.
9. Michael Schiavo is employed by law enforcement.Would a person with a questionable backround get a job of that nature?
10. The nurse who claims Michael Schiavo directed her not to care for his wife was terminated by the Hospice Center for theft.
Just a few things that maybe some folks did not know. I am not at all good at cutting and pasting. anyone can go to [url="http://www.herald.com"]http://www.herald.com[/url]
Type "Michael Schiavo loyal" into the search engine. Several articles will come up. You'd want the one from 3.22.05.[/quote:3c257]

good work finding that +1 , i guess the mainstream media wont mention this sort of stuff annoy:

[url=http://www.imageshack.us:3c257][img]http://img32.exs.cx/img32/9791/attentionwhore4dj.jpg[/img][/url:3c257]

[quote="Sgt>Stackem":f1453]

10. The nurse who claims Michael Schiavo directed her not to care for his wife was terminated by the Hospice Center for theft..[/quote:f1453]

I wonder if this was the nurse that they interviewed on Nightline (not sure if that is the name of the show) tonight. They had a former nurse and a former court appointed guardian. The nurse's story, she cared for Terri around 1995, paints a totally different picture. She claimed that Michael was not that involved with the care. She did mention that he always wanted them to put makeup on Terri. But she says terri was not in a vegetative state then - that she could say hello to people etc. She also claimed to have heard Micheal say "when is that bitch going to die?" (I really found that hard to believe and it makes me suspicious of the rest of her story.) Anyway, she tells a different side of the story, that's for sure.

The court guardian said that when he examined her in 1997 that she was not responsive at all. (the nurse countered that she was never responsive when men were around and, in fact, men were barred from her room.) The court guy did say that the staff at the facility generally disliked Michael.

They also had a guest who was extremely disabled but able to talk. She made an interesting comment that people make casual remarks like "I wouldn't want to live that way." But that these are only casual remarks, made without knowing what they are talking about. It's hard to explain, but she made a very valid point. It made me wonder how many people would change their mind about that if they were told, "We are not just going to pull a plug and you die painlessly and instantly. We are going to starve you to death."

I guess the only good that is going to come out of this is that it gets people talking about these issues again.

even if half of the "facts" are true (it did come from a newspaper) it is something to consider. The first few really made me think

I would say fuckt hat to living on lfie support...fuck id say give me alcohal down a funnel and wait for me to die.

everone has seen her on t.v. by now, would you want to live the rest of your life like that? I for one would rather die and let my family live a life without allways being at my care for a loss cause. If I could talk and do shit, then maybe I wouldnt want to die, but being dead to the world yet your still alive is no way to live.

assisted suicide is the only way...shoot her up with some drugs and let her die in peace.

assisted suicide is illegal, thats why Kavorkian (sp?) is in the slammer. its sad to see her starve to death, but shes supposedly incappable of feeling the side affects. i wasnt really sure on what to make on this issue, how does anyone know what her wishes were? i can see how her parents cant let go and want to keep her alive, but just because this man moved on with his life, doesnt mean he doesnt care for her. there isnt a reason for this guy to lie about what her wishes were and he did live with her for 7 years. if anyone knows what she would have wanted, it would have been him. i dont think i have ever talked to my parents about my death, but me and my ex touched the subject a couple of times. its sad, but her parents need to let go.