Evolution vs Creationism
 

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Why is evolution still being taught as a theory? Yes, we can't find the origin of the human race, but we have found traces of humans with primate features. Schools have accepted Newton's, Einsteins, Copurnicus' teachings after they were persicuted by the church. Don't you think its time for evolution?

It's funny that you brought that up. They are debating teaching Creation in the Kansas schools along with Evolution. I ask if they will have separate classes for Judo-Christian creation, Buddhists creation, Hindu creation and everybody look at me like I'm from outer space.


Keeping it real.

I'm saying atleast teach back to the first humanoid, you don't have to go back to the very beginning. Who said Adam and Eve didn't look like apes?

It's not called creationism anymore, it's called "Intelligent Design" and George Bush made a comment on it earlier this week about how it should be taught in schools.

I don't believe a man in the sky created Earth in 6 days and rested on the 7th, I don't believe woman was born of a rib from a man, I don't believe that two humans mated and had offspring who kept reproducing without any problems with their genes associated with incest, I don't believe there was a garden of Eden, I don't believe that dinosaurs are gods practical joke, I don't believe dinosaurs lived in the Garden of Eden and that humans put saddles on them and used them like horses, and I most certainly don’t believe that Earth is only 6000 years old.

In my opinion it makes far more sense that we slowly became what we are over millions of years. If anything there is historical evidence for evolution, what evidence is there for ID? A book written by human thousands of years ago isn't evidence by the way.


Edit: I forgot to mention, that I had a Born Again as my Bio teacher my sophomore year and I asked him about teaching evolution to us and he simply told me "Nah". I never learned about evolution in school, essentially I learned it all on my own about Darwin, the Galapagos the theory itself. So apparently evolution is now a taboo subject in public schools.

It seems crazy to me. Science teachers are supposed to teach science!

Intelligent Design is not science. It's based on faith. Not everyone follows the same faith. Ignoring evolution as a part of human development and existence is irresponsible.

I remember reading about the debate in Kansas, and I even bookmarked a link on it, but yahoo took the article down.

Einstein and Hawkings believe in God yet they are Scientists ... just because you can explain stuff through math doesn't make you a heretic.

Many scientists and mathematicians have come to beleive that the odds of the world coming together in a big bang are such a longshot that they have become skeptical

Re: Evolution vs Creationism
 

Their theories have also been mathematically and observationally verified in many ways.

Proof?

This is my field of expertise and I will be more than happy to discourage you.

You say a lot of things but you never back them up with anything.

I know there are scientists that would disagree with the big bang theory, but are we even talking about that?

We're talking about evolution on the earth. The earth was not formed by the big bang. The earth is about 3.5-4 billion years old. The universe is 13.8 billion years old if I remember correctly.

The rapid expansion of the universe is a fact. Its remnants can be seen using Doppler red shift. You can also see cosmic background radiation as a result from the rapid expansion.

Evolution is a fact. Life on earth started out in the oceans. Water is essential in life. Microorganisms evolve into more complex structures > organisms begin to populate the land and eventually, after billions of years, you get us. And yes, it is billions. It is believed living organisms started out much earlier than previously thought. Perhaps only half a billion years after the creation of the earth. You are 3 billion years of evolution.

For evolution and how the earth began, I highly recommend a PBS program called "Origins".

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/origins/

PS: Ktog and I would be happy to debate physics, astrophysics and the universe with you I’m sure.

let me get some stuff, I just learned a lot of stuff about macroevolution that suggests it may not be true, ie: indications that men lived with dinosaurs

*cracks knuckles*

here's an interesting thought:

DNA contains more organized information than a complete set of Encyclopedias. Imagine if we received a radio transmission from outerspace containing the information of a complete set of Encyclopedias. We would assume that the information was sent by something intelligent, yet we have the same idea happening in nature through DNA and most people beleive it is random. Just a thought, I know there is still random coincidence and all those things, but still...


and if evolution is the transition from one species to a better, more advanced species, where are all the fossils of the species in between that died because their stubby still developing wings/bone structures/appendages made them easy prey? Darwin himself said that such fossils should exist in mass.

I never said Dawinism, I said evolution. Darwinism is the social basis of evolution, there is not a lot science involved. Evolution is mostly genetics where sudden changes (non-grotesque beings) are used to change the physical and mental abilities of a creature. Darwin made his theories 150 years ago, when there wasn't genetic studies and evolutionary biology.

Who says DNA is random? Most likely people with no scientific background.

I used to be a monkey? eek:

You were never monkey. You might be related to one though.

Random was the wrong word to use, what I meant was that it was put together without plans or intelligence.

Its the same exact reason a stone acts like a stone. DNA is the material that makes up our compisition and appearance. A stone looks

Ah, thats why we use fruit flys instead of humans in much of testing. They have less genes; however many are in common with the human traits. Its not that we are so unique, but complex. Lets take a sperm for example, once fertilized it can begin to devolope. However, ift the sperm did not have the DNA then the embryo would not be able to to develop because the item that tells them what to do, does not exist. DNA is basically a brain that is imbeded in everything inside you. It holds data and reminds the body why and how it exists. If some one doesn't believe in DNA (most likely because its so small and complex), then they might as well throw out the idea that our brain is useless (or too complex to understand).

I could explain the whole development through more complex terms (aka electrons ...) but it would be fruitless.

And the fact that DNA knows from one single cell to make all sorts of different things is amazing. One cell is behind the creation of uncountable other cells and in turn, organs, hairs, etc.

Humans are intelligent. We have created a world where we can manufacture things, find people who want them and then send them. Cells can do this also, the manufacture chemicals, find areas of the body to send them to, and then tag them so the receiver knows what it is before it sends them to the actual destination. The difference between intelligent humans and a cell is that the cell can change what it makes almost instantly. No factories or manufacturing plants can change their product instantly but the cell can. In this way, the cell's abilities are superior to those of us intelligent humans. That's why I think that God was behind them, I find it strange to think they came to be that way by themselves. We can't do what they can do yet we have complex brains.

Word. All can't be explained (yet) and thats why people turn to God or another supreme being. You have faith in God, I have faith in humans. Even though we don't have the answer i don't turn to a faith thats failed me, I turn towards one that is progressing.

There a many that are just improbable or even seemingly impossible. Our lives are run by probability (quantum mechanics) where the impossible are possible and its scary how often things happen daily that shouldn't.

Here is a question that i ponder all the time ... what if life could sprout out anywhere (space wise) if the conditions are right? Are we really something special?

heh, thats an easy one for me to answer personally.

Good discussion, oddly enough for GF1 it was quite civilized.

We try to keep the oOo: out of this section. Plus it has been a debate so far, not an argument nor a flame war.

I've been taught about evolution a lot in school. Luckily, most of my teachers have been non-religious. biggrin:

I really don't give a shit as long as you represent both ideas in one form or another.

To be totally honest, I don't remember really learning about evolution/intelligent design. It's never really come up in my highschool biology class. For a college course, well that's another story.

Shows like Nova and Frontline are one of my favorite shows to watch.
I was watching one show about evolution and it when through each stage and how it died out and why, man did that open my eyes

Who has any right to make those claims?

Scientists?

People act like it's a set in stone thing. Macroevolution is not a certainty, there are holes in the theories, missing links, irresponsibly represented facts and distortions.

Same thing could be said about God, but as I always point out when arguing about religion there is one thing that will keep a person from believing another persons beliefs, Faith. Faith can't be argued by definition. You question faith? Then you don't have faith.

yes, but that's the strange thing about religion isn't it, but that's just it, it's religion, not science. This is science being told as absolutely true for this reason and that reason, beleif in God is held to a different standard because it is not a science.

...and that brings me back to my very first post. Religion does not belong in a science class room. Teach evolution back as far as we can, then throw out the idea that we could evolve from apes or aliens dropped us off or a supreme being might of made us.

Sooo pottentially my great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great grandad could have been a monkey? sweeet! biggrin:

Just as an FYI it isn't as simple as Monkey -> Human, there were dozens of diffrent 'models' that lead up to us.

I'm fine with teaching microevolution, I don't have a problem with that, I just don't think that we came from apes.

I don't see what the whole big deal is about? When you're in highschool bio, there really shouldn't be that much information on the whole topic. As long as you state both sides, there's nothing wrong. When you get to a university level, it's pretty much easy when it comes to the course. Just have the prof state what the hell the course is---religion (intelligent design) or a scientific ave of science (evolution).

I don't really see why a bunch of people are trying to have the religion taught in school as if it were hard fact. Yeah, that's right, you've heard me say it.

Intelligent Design...what a name.

anyways Id rather religion be only taught in churches and never show up in any school system. Unless it is like World Religions or something that at leats gives you brief shit on every or at leats a lot fo religions...but if it was a christianity based class basically telling you right from wrong then fuck that.

found that line mildly amusing

Clarity of thought and sentence structure are very important.

dance:

what's wrong with a class devoted to christian studies? As long as that's not the only religion being offered. But if it's a private school, ie Villanova, then let them do what they want.