Guerillas tough to beat, say soldiers
 

[quote:b0612]ON THE ISRAEL-LEBANON BORDER: Israeli soldiers returning from the front in Lebanon say Hezbollah guerillas are hiding amid civilians and in underground bunkers two or three storeys deep - evidence, they say, that Hezbollah has been planning this battle for years.

"It's hard to beat them," one soldier said. "They're not afraid of anything."

The soldiers, most of whom declined to give their names under orders from superiors, described exchanges of gunfire in between houses on village streets, with Hezbollah rebels sometimes popping out of bushes to fire Kalashnikov rifles, rocket-propelled grenades and anti-tank missiles.

The troops' comments underscore the enormous challenge faced by Israel as it seeks to neutralise Hezbollah.

Despite Israel's overwhelming firepower, some military analysts say the war is not going particularly well for Israel, which has been unable to significantly push back the guerillas or stop hundreds of their rockets from slamming into northern Israel.

For the past few days, Israel has been fighting for control of the tiny southern Lebanese village of Maroun al-Ras, on a hilltop less than 500m across the border.

The army said it had taken the village, but officers at the scene confirmed there was still fighting to do. "They're not fighting like we thought they would," one soldier said. "They're fighting harder. They're good on their own ground."

One soldier said the guerillas wore olive-green army uniforms "to confuse us" because Israelis wore the same.

Others said Hezbollah hid underground in reinforced bunkers until they thought it safe to come out and attack. The Israelis prefer to stay away from those bunkers, the soldiers said, instead calling in co-ordinates so forces massed behind the border can hit them with guided missiles.

"It will take the (northern) summer to beat them," said Michael Sidorenko, 21, resting in the shade of a road sign with other combat troops. On the hills behind him, loud gunfire and the constant thud of explosions could be heard. "They're not normal soldiers," he said. "They're guerillas. They're very smart."

He added he saw Hezbollah fighters firing from behind Lebanese civilians.

"That's why our soldiers are getting killed," he said.

Of the 19 soldiers killed since fighting began, five have died trying to gain control of Maroun al-Ras. To avoid more deaths, Israel has decided to limit its ground incursions to pinpoint operations near the border.

Not every soldier described Hezbollah as fierce. One said that when Israeli troops showed up in vehicles, the guerillas ran "like chickens".

Others wondered why Hezbollah had not yet attacked the almost 24 army vehicles and hundreds of troops camped out in easy striking range below the hill on which the village sits.

Most of the fighting in Maroun al-Ras has been conducted by a core group of a few hundred Israeli soldiers, including paratroopers.

The soldiers said Hezbollah had refrained from attacking them as they approached Maroun al-Ras in tanks and armoured personnel carriers, preferring instead to let Israelis reach the village and attack them there.

The fighting, they said, showed the guerillas had used the six years since Israel withdrew from Lebanon to build bunkers, stockpile weapons and study tactics.

"They have good knowledge about where we are, what we're doing, what kinds of weapons we have," soldier Sidorenko said.

"But it's better to fight them now than later, when they'd be even stronger."

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 77,00.html
[/quote:b0612]

I love how the news networks focus on the children being killed. If the pussys didnt hide behind women and children they would be fine. It takes a real man to hide behind a kid, what f-in losers

The vast majority of the Lebanese civilians killed have been as a result of bombs and missiles fired/dropped by cowards flying at 10,000ft in F-16s.

[quote="Mr.Buttocks":4d8b4]The vast majority of the Lebanese civilians killed have been as a result of bombs and missiles fired/dropped by cowards flying at 10,000ft in F-16s.[/quote:4d8b4]
Human Sandbags are like human shields, but for buildings

[quote="Mr.Buttocks":f440a]The vast majority of the Lebanese civilians killed have been as a result of bombs and missiles fired/dropped by cowards flying at 10,000ft in F-16s.[/quote:f440a]


can you tell me why those areas are being targeted? Could it be because the terrorists are a bunch of pussies and are hiding in the areas that house civilians????????????

[quote="Sgt>Stackem":4ffd4][quote="Mr.Buttocks":4ffd4]The vast majority of the Lebanese civilians killed have been as a result of bombs and missiles fired/dropped by cowards flying at 10,000ft in F-16s.[/quote:4ffd4]


can you tell me why those areas are being targeted? Could it be because the terrorists are a bunch of pussies and are hiding in the areas that house civilians????????????[/quote:4ffd4]


These people are fighting in and around their home towns and villages. Israel has been destroying roads and bridges, making it hard for civilians to flee, and when they do flee they've had bombs dropped on them. They have no choice but to fight in populated areas. Or do you think that Hezbollah fighters should stand out in the open desert to make the job easier for the Israelis?

[quote="Mr.Buttocks":0c701]


These people are fighting in and around their home towns and villages. Israel has been destroying roads and bridges, making it hard for civilians to flee, and when they do flee they've had bombs dropped on them. They have no choice but to fight in populated areas. Or do you think that Hezbollah fighters should stand out in the open desert to make the job easier for the Israelis?[/quote:0c701]


yes they should stand in the open!!!


the roads are also supply routes, it sucks for them (the civilians) but they should have kicked the Hezbollah fighters out long ago. If you sleep with the ememy you die with them

[img]http://www.jonco48.com/blog/With_20Love_20from_20Israel.jpg[/img]

good to see the schools teach spelling over there

[quote="Sgt>Stackem":708f6]good to see the schools teach spelling over there[/quote:708f6]Well fuck, Skippy; considering they're ISRAELIS that look about 9-10 years old, I'd cut them some slack. Or should the English language be branded into the minds of children across the globe as quickly as possible? eek:


But honestly, what did they expect? The Vietnames Geurillas did it, the Insurgents across Afghanistan and parts of Iraq do it... There's no justification for holding a child in front of you to soften a spray of bullets, but really, this shouldn't be any shocking news.

Even the Israelis do it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 212870.stm

The idea that one side is worse then the other is laughable. Both sides and not just Hezbollah but other Islamic terrorist groups are evil, full of hardliners and religious zealots, these wastes of human life, who makes it their lives work to perpetuate the same religious animosity for the greater evil and which ultimately end up hurting everyone and helping no one deserve death.

The sooner people stop accepting these people and start trying to accept people despite their petty and insignificant religious differences the sooner you will see peace in the Middle East.

gg israel.

Israeli bomb kills UN observers
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 215366.stm

This is getting fucking ridiculous...IMO Israel should start pouring a bit more of its cash into intelligence and special forces - because you can only counter insurgency with an equal and opposite force. How the fuck can you bomb an entire family to get at one of the family members? It's destructive, ineffective and senseless.

The bombing and sending massive armies in thing doesn't really work anymore...

RIP those UN people, but I wonder what Kofi Annan was doing to implement [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Security_Council_Resolution_1559:c1b0c]UN Res 1559 wiki link[/url:c1b0c]
to prevent this entire event from happening in the first place...was 2 years not enough time?

you can see how it's difficult to deal with governments who freely admit they
cannot control various military factions they sit next to but, erm.. it's not them. rolleyes:

[quote="Mr.Buttocks":22950]The vast majority of the Lebanese civilians killed have been as a result of bombs and missiles fired/dropped by cowards flying at 10,000ft in F-16s.[/quote:22950]
how do those Israelis turn cowards into fighter pilots is what I'd like 2 no! spank:

i agree that this war has taken an unecessary turn. Israel should not be boming apartments and city blocks to take out 2 fucking guys. they need to operate more efficiently and responsibly.

thats easy to say but impossible to do. Isreal has put up with this crap for a while, I dont blame them one bit. Now Iraq is going to back the Homzella fighters, that isnt good at all. It may be time to rearange our troops. Welcome to WWIII

Unconventional Warfare defeats the purpose of having the Geneva Convention

[quote="Jin-Roh":a9896]Unconventional Warfare defeats the purpose of having the Geneva Convention[/quote:a9896]

i honestly don't see what the problem is. sure civilians dying is sad and unfortunate, but unfortunatly its just another part of war. if a group of people do something to provoke war, then they have to be willing to accept the responsibility of the consequences of war. civilian deaths and other colatoral damage are just another part of war. what i don't understand is why no one questions or condems our massive bombing of german and japanesse cities during ww2. we killed hundreds of thousands of civilians during ww2. we would level cities to destroy a few factories, where were the protests then?? the public outcries?? lets se...there were none! people knew its what had to be done to win the war and if fire bombing this city meant it brought the war that much closer to being over then it was worth it.

now we have these cowardly islamic terrorists who love to attack western countries then flee back to their urban suroundings, not wear uniforms, hide behind civilians, count on the west to either to be to scared to bomb them, or bomb them and then film the destruction and condim the "horrible bombings", or finally (their most prefered scenerio, we send our ground forces in to root them out, and they will just shoot our troops in the back or blow themselves up to kill as many western forces as possible.

these muslim enemies we face today are simply cowards and deserve no special treatment what so ever. at least the damn germans and japs had the balls to wear uniforms and face us on a battle field, because you know they actually were concerned about defending their homeland and protecting their civilians. not like these muslim terrorists, who refuse to wear uniforms, refuse to face us on a battlefield, and hide behind women and children and count on our undecisiveness to survive. these islamic terrorists are the reason why civilians are being bombed because they think if they hide in urban areas they will be safe, they do not give a fuck about the civilian population they jepordize by hiding there...and they make that blatantly clear everytime they detonate bombs that kill hundreds of civlians. we should make it perfectly clear that we are going to kill our enemy no matter where they hide, and if there is colatoral damage then so be it, but the people doing the bombing shouldn't be the ones who are condemed...rather the cowards who are hiding behind civilians should be the ones that are condemed because they are the ones putting the civilians in danger and we are the ones fighting a war that they started, something we all forget.

[quote=Whatada]Well fuck, Skippy; considering they're ISRAELIS that look about 9-10 years old, I'd cut them some slack. Or should the English language be branded into the minds of children across the globe as quickly as possible? eek:


But honestly, what did they expect? The Vietnames Geurillas did it, the Insurgents across Afghanistan and parts of Iraq do it... There's no justification for holding a child in front of you to soften a spray of bullets, but really, this shouldn't be any shocking news.[/quote:35b08]
lol, they speak Hebrew over there. i'm amazed that they even know a little bit of english. good on them


Lets go Israel!
[img]http://www.stateofisrael.com/Israeli%20Flag.gif[/img]

Oh please would you stfu. You can't compare this situation to ww2. Ridiculous.
For one, the enemies in ww2 were nations with governments leading the countries into battle with massive armies full of citizen soldiers...This war is about a small nasty group of people WITHIN a country, not a conventional army.
In ww2, the allies bombed factories, strategic positions that would hurt industry and make it hard for the enemy to build up the MEANS to fight the war - Not random bombings of cities to get at a few terrorists peppered throughout massive amounts of civilian families. ....Of course there were random civilian bombings like Dresden, but you don't see many people denying that those types of things were a mistake....and even then its still a hell of alot different.
Imagine how pissed you would be if some small group of Americans for some stupid reason started launching terrorist attacks on China - and China retaliated by bombing the shit out of civilian populations in your towns and cities where they lived - I'm sure you'd see it quite differently.

Why should innocent civilians take the brunt of the pain and anguish just because A FEW of these terrorists are hiding amongst them? Makes no sense at all.
This ISN'T a conventional war - so why fight it like it is?

Also you ask why there wasn't the same outcry during WW2? There was far less pacifism in WW2 for alot of reasons, most civilians - until they were bombed - were totally removed from the violence, which was mostly glorified - both sides had their citizens supporting the war effort. I'm sure most of the lebs that are dying don't support these terrorists at all.

[quote:69470]if a group of people do something to provoke war, then they have to be willing to accept the responsibility of the consequences of war.[/quote:69470]

Funny how its the innocents that are facing the consequences, and not the people that actually provoked the war.

I'm not anti-israel in the slightest - I just think the way they're waging this conflict is pretty stupid. Not only for the innocents they're killing but also the future terrorists that will be born out of this conflict. They're just making more enemies.

like i said before, the only reason civilians are being killed is because hezbollah fighters (like all islamic terrorists) are cowards who use women and children as human shields. this point needs to be emphasized more by the media so people will start seeing just how low these terrorists really are.

.....So the Hezbollah fighters line them all up on the roof of their own apartments to take the brunt of the SHELLS flying over from Israel? I think you'll find human shields aren't very effective when you're being bombed.

FUCKING WHORES!!!!

dance:

It is funny how certain groups are freedom fighters while others are terrorists.

the point of them using civilians as shields isn't to stop the bombings. its to film the results of the bombings/ shellings and show the world the results and blame isreal for the civilian deaths so they can turn world opinion against israel and in favor of them. the islamic terrorists know they can never hope to defeat israel or any western country in a conventional war so all they can do is wage a cowardly war of atrition and count on our soft populations to cave in when casualties start to rise. which from some of the opinions in here, its obviously working.

like i said before, if the terrorists are cowardly enough to hide themselves behind their own civilians and make them targets, then the only ones to blame for the colatoral damage are the cowardly terrorists themselves, who obviously do not give a fuck about who they kill.

people are being killed as they flee the city in cars and on foot. how are they being used as shields?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/ ... index.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5228224.stm

being that israel and the US are the "good guys," we have a responsiblilty to act professional and accurately when attacking a state that is much weaker than our own and less likely to fight conventionally. since our wars as of lately have been against the government and not the people, part of the goal is to win the hearts and support of the population.

looking at our ally fighting like this is very unpleasant to me and makes me wonder why we should risk our necks and reputation for their sake.

So everytime Israel blows up civilian buildings and misses Hezbollah, or gets one or two terrorists for every 50 or so civilians they kill, and AMERICAN media portrays this....It's solely just Hezbollah, and their 'human shields?'

That makes no sense.

[quote:ab44b]its to film the results of the bombings/ shellings and show the world the results and blame isreal for the civilian deaths so they can turn world opinion against israel and in favor of them.[/quote:ab44b]

Yeah. Hezbollah do HEAPS of news reporting. I've seen plenty of footage filmed by them. You're fucking ridiculous.

[quote:ab44b]like i said before, if the terrorists are cowardly enough to hide themselves behind their own civilians and make them targets, then the only ones to blame for the colatoral damage are the cowardly terrorists themselves, who obviously do not give a fuck about who they kill.[/quote:ab44b]

So as an analogy, Its solely the criminals fault when the police department just decide to blow the fucking building up killing all the hostages inside....?

Considerable collateral damage in this case is avoidable. If Israel just reevaluated the way they fought this war then they'd have the total support of everyone....But instead they show that innocent lives don't mean shit to them unless they're israelites.

Lebanon isn't a nation at war as much as it is a nation taken hostage by criminals.

I haven't seen anything like that. They report all the civilian deaths as fuck ups by Israel or share both sides. For a group of terrorists that consider Israeli civilian deaths a Victory, Hezbollah hasn't been bad-mouthed that badly on the News at all. From what I've seen there's quite a few American reporters who've reported right from the cities and villages being destroyed by Israel telling these civilian's stories.

So no I don't see the American media taking sides in this War at all.

I've been seeing a lot of mixed views. Sharing sympathy for both Israel and Hezbolallah.

Hezbollah is by no means Lebanon's convential Army. This fact alone makes this a very confusing and dangerous War for both Israel and Lebanon.

[quote="Jin-Roh":12100]I've been seeing a lot of mixed views. Sharing sympathy for both Israel and Hezbolallah.[/quote:12100]i havent seen any sympathy for Hezbollah, but there is definately sympathy for the Lebanese.

Oh yeah I know, that post was for Eames....I put "American" media in caps because he tried to claim that Hezbollah filmed the civilian deaths so that they could use them to make Israel look bad, when the reality is that these stories are coming from an un-bias source. beer:

Im not buying that anymore. If you have a country (Lebanon) and this group moves in (Homozba) then this group moves in 1000's of missles then the country should stop them. The UN "observers" along the border should have noticed 1000's upon 1000's of missles going across the border or they should get seeing eye dogs. Lebanon cant say they are innocent, the UN cant say it either. Both allowed this to happen.

fuck israel.

[quote="[DAS REICH] Blitz":e63c9]fuck israel.[/quote:e63c9]

What are you saying, do you think it's time for The Final Solution or some shit?




or maybe your just being a dumb shit again

wallbash:

[quote=Johnj]What are you saying, do you think it's time for The Final Solution or some shit?




or maybe your just being a dumb shit again

wallbash:[/quote:d4e3d]Look at my username, look at my post, wtf do u think im suggesting dance: calmdown:

"man, we getting our asses kicked"