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Slavery
I have one question do you think the African-Americans should get money because there great great granparents were slaves? This is a big deal for me because I live in a city were we had race riots fust a year ago.
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To tell you the truth...No. The Australian Aborigines are trying to get the exact same thing, money out of a Government and people that had nothing to do with slavery. They are wanting an apology from our Prime Minister for things that happened, well, close too and over 100 years ago. He cannot say sorry for something he, and the current population of Australia had nothing to do with. As far as I'm concerned, the black population of Australia can get off their lazy asses and get themselves jobs, that way, they will learn some responsibilty which they have clearly forgotten after the thousands of litres of alcohol they have consumed and earn their own money like the rest of Australia. I'm not saying they are all like that, but where I live, in my city, it's all I ever see, drunk, bum looking aborigines. They need to get some self respect.
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they're just greedy. they dont care about their grandparents they just want the cash
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Theyre not entitled to anything. If that were the case you could go looking through past history for misdeeds done to people on your family tree and claim for them too. Lot of bollocks imo.
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bolllocks? wtf
No they shouldnt get money they should get respect. |
[quote="Old Reliable":b879f]bolllocks? wtf
No they shouldnt get money they should get respect.[/quote:b879f] bollocks = balls :) |
I don't think the 9/11 people deserve money, so I don't think they deserve money
my great grandparent was a slave give me money.....ya right |
I have a scrotum, give me some money.
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To suggest that they should get off their lazy asses is a little bit of a mixed message...as in one sense, this shows a lack of understanding of anthropological displacement and socialogical adverse effects of that displacement. An example would be to ask you and your entire family to be subjected to removal from all you've known, then experience emotional and physical degradation, abused, placed in an environment which you have no living experience of, exposed to racist inferences wherever you went, even if you were trying to fit in and conform given everything that has been set against you...finding that the "rules" expected of you to follow change to keep you in inferiority, and then have a minority among you that can't cope with all these removals of humanities be used as the average example of your kind to malign you further. The examples that you see are people that are no different to the non-indigenous homeless or vagrants - either not able to cope in this environment or have no wish to do so...which is not fully indicative of the total of either white or black community members. I have spoken to indigenous people that have for one reason or another fully embraced the white societial structure and do see those feloow indigenous running around on the streets begging for money and living on park benches as useless and lazy and wish they would make some sort of effort. Probably partly fair comment, but it still comes back to understanding the level and volume of degradation experienced by that individual. Despite your youth, circumstances could befall you to the exact same path as those you have just prejudiced...wouldn't you like to know that there are people that would think you worthy of giving assistance to rebuild should you not be able to yourself?... |
Despite my youth ?? How old do you think I am ?? I'm not some pre-pubescent shmuck who has no idea what he is talking about. I live in a city full of blacks that do absolutely nothing but collect their dole cheque and go and piss it away on alcohol or smokes. I do know some that are quite the opposite and they as you have seen yourself hate those of the same racial background that do nothing. I'm sick of my tax payers money going toward bums who do nothing to better themselves. The money I pay for tax could be better used helping the elderly, or abused children or hell, even give it to the Military, God knows they need it.
Either black or white, I dont care for slackers, and I dont care for my hard earned cash to be wasted on them. Whether they are from the States or from Australia, they dont deserve the money, no bloody way. I have always made my way in life and always will, I have been out of work, but I dont slack off, I keep looking, do community work, I dont sit around and do sweet "FA", like they do. [quote:f060f]To suggest that they should get off their lazy asses is a little bit of a mixed message...as in one sense, this shows a lack of understanding of anthropological displacement and socialogical adverse effects of that displacement. An example would be to ask you and your entire family to be subjected to removal from all you've known, then experience emotional and physical degradation, abused, placed in an environment which you have no living experience of, exposed to racist inferences wherever you went, even if you were trying to fit in and conform given everything that has been set against you...finding that the "rules" expected of you to follow change to keep you in inferiority, and then have a minority among you that can't cope with all these removals of humanities be used as the average example of your kind to malign you further.[/quote:f060f] This doesnt mean that they can expect to get an apology from the people of Australia, this day, for something that occured so long ago. It's irrelevant. I'm exposed to racist crap everyday, I'm exposed to blacks asking for 10 cents, I'm exposed to them asking for a smoke, I'm exposed to them stealing from the shop I work at and trying to get a refund on that stolen property. They are slack, they are given more than they deserve and now, they have their own court to be judged in.....and they want to be treated equally ?? A white person does exactly the same crime as a black person, and that black person is released within a few hours because of his skin colour because the Police are afraid of being called racist. They are hypocrits and the Government is too soft on them. They think we are the racist ones ?? Pfft. Another story to go along with this....My father went to pick up his truck about 2 weeks ago from my sisters place. I was talking to him on his mobile phone. Some black walks up to him and tells my father to take him downtown or he'll shoot him. Now, you can imagine what the hell I'm feeling as I hear every single word thats being said between him and my dad. I was scared shitless and feared for my dads safety. Luckily, he is not one to take shit, he exited the car he was in, and promptly fucked that prick off. I doubt the black had a gun, but just the fact it had the gall to threaten my father with being shot if he didnt take it downtown. Thats the kind of crap that goes on daily around here, and you know what, I dont like it. I'll just tell you know, I'm trying hard not to be racist in this entire situation, but it's getting pretty damn difficult. |
wookie your talk turns me on..... but no way in hell they deserve money, alls they want is money screw them (no offence) they dont care about their great grandparents. hey im a f00king WOP! give me money cause my great grandparents moved here in 1900!!! (which is all true) biggrin:
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Lol! The Wookster has a knack for getting my hormones in a tangle, too!
I think, money is not what they deserve at all....Money is not nor, has ever been apart of the situation...I think they should be given respect. Which seems to be something they don't receive from a lot of people... ....As far as I'm concerned, the complaining does nothing but fire up the situation further.....Its a whole other story for African-Americans in the Ghettos....They need to be sorted out...The American Government needs to get the education system in those areas up to scratch, so that those stuck in the 'ghetto-rut,' can get an education and get the hell outta there...... |
[quote:023c6]...I live in a city full of blacks that do absolutely nothing but collect their dole cheque and go and piss it away on alcohol or smokes...[/quote:023c6]
In the Sydney CBD, parts of the Inner West, and areas west such as Blacktown (ironic?) and Doonside, those people are majorly white anglo decendant, but I'm aware that they're no a true indication of white anglos... [quote:023c6]Either black or white, I dont care for slackers, and I dont care for my hard earned cash to be wasted on them. Whether they are from the States or from Australia, they dont deserve the money, no bloody way.[/quote:023c6] The entrenchment of African Americans through slavery is a separate issue. While there are distinct parrallels between our 2 cultural exploits of those considered "uneducated" and "savages", the African Americans were specifically shipped to the US as slaves...we found ours here in Aus and preceded to enslave or slaughter, in some cases, slaughter without conscience and displace with disregard to family and culture under the belief it was "for their own good". The money issue has been proven to recent as being one fraught with corruption from within their own people...but when we do it, it's time for the short memory. Those leading the ranks for the financial gain are more interested in personal financial and territorial gain than reconsiliation. I agree that money should not be thrown at them with these kind of people in charge at the moment...giving tangible aide in the form of health reform, social balance and cultural adherence programs is a start, but that needs a greater input from their own people first, before the application of funds to a "governing committee" be implemented. [quote:023c6]This doesnt mean that they can expect to get an apology from the people of Australia, this day, for something that occured so long ago. It's irrelevant...{/quote] The apology appears in earnest to be in the way of sympathy and acknowledgement of wrongs done, rather than take personal responsibilty for the actions of those who committed them. This is still a grey area, but the sorry message was over simplified in the attempt that people wouldn't be able to understand the complexity and level of what was being apologised for. I personally take no responsibility for the actions that were committed unjustly to the indigenous of Australia, but I am sympathetic to those geniunely affected from those actions...how big that geniune group is, I have no idea... the sympathy is not globally applied, if you like... [quote:023c6]... A white person does exactly the same crime as a black person, and that black person is released within a few hours because of his skin colour because the Police are afraid of being called racist... [/quote:023c6] Sorry, mate, but that is a gross over generalisation based on knowledge of specifc incidences, and is not indicative of the "whole" criminal Venn Diagram subset...It will also vary from region to region...especially if you life in the Northern Territory under "manditory sentencing" laws... [quote:023c6]....My father went to pick up his truck about 2 weeks ago from my sisters place. I was talking to him on his mobile phone. Some black walks up to him and tells my father to take him downtown or he'll shoot him...[/quote:023c6] Although a very disturbing incident, and I wish in no way to trivialise it, this is an act of an individual with no respect for any person, regardless of colour. That bloke may have acted against your dad because in his mind he saw him and his colour as being the absolute cause for all his problems at that point, and expresses a racist attitude, or "reverse racism" as it's sometimes called, but I have problems with that term...isn't it just racism?...but he would just as likely had disregard for his own people in their environment as well. [quote:023c6]I'll just tell you know, I'm trying hard not to be racist in this entire situation, but it's getting pretty damn difficult.[/quote:023c6][/quote:023c6] At worst, it's an expression of anti-culturism, as the entire race of our indigenous are not as bad as some prominent examples. Think of it in this way. Not every woman that uses you and dumps you is representantive of women in general. That would be sexist to think that. Apply the same logic here, and treat everyone as an individual that deserves your altruistic repect until they show they don't deserve it. How you deal with them after they do that is up to you on a case by case basis... Rambling and Moralisation over... angel: |
Very well said, although I dont agree with you in a few circumstances. I think we can agree that what did happen must have been terrible to those that were taken away from their cultures, and placed in "White Australia" to act as nothing more than slaves, perhaps even guinea pigs for some sort of grand cultural experiment.
But when it all boils down to it, as far as I am concerned, none of them deserve any money, neither culture. As terrible as things might have been money isnt a sollution, it's a quick fix to make everybody content enough to shut up, and thats no sollution as far as I'm concerned. Give the money to starving kids in Ethiopia, or anyone feeling the effects of drought, poverty and any other intolerable state of suffering. That would be money well spent. |
well said wookie.....damn your australian time zone....it is like....not tired time there
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GreatWhiteDisappointer.
Some very fine reading, all of which I find hard to disagree with. The only thing I'd like to add is that I feel too much emphasis in many a society is placed on the individual taking responsibility. While there is no doubt that a person cannot blame everything on his/her surroundings, there is a strong lack of understanding of the social and political constraints, derived and still in place due to past suppressive instituions, on many minorities. I think it should be also made clear that this isn't just a black issue, but one that spans many social divisions: gender, sexuality, ethnicity and class, to name a few. I think people need to stop and think at times why it is that certain groups suffer more than others. Blaming it on laziness is just an easy way to relieve our burden of guilt. In regards to this thread, the question is rather general. As GreatWhiteDisappointer points out, there is corruption [within the system] which results in inefficient, to put it mildly, disturbtion of aid (money isn't the only form of support required). This has to be dealt with. However, it isn't a question of repaying people for the slavery issue, but helping them to get out of a low socio-economic position and acknowledging that life can be very difficult for people because of structures some of us have in place. |
I have proff that my ansesters (sp) died freeing the slaves. Do I get money too? I wont because Im white!
mb |
Two sides to every story!
1) I don't feel I should be forced to pay more taxes to people just because of thier race. Yes, they were enslaved by the Confederacy, not the Union. The Union is what is now our government, also the ones that freed the slaves. I also have ancestors that were here in the Early 1630's. (George Welker) All throughout my family history, there was not one report of owning a slave. However, I did have a few ancestors fight with the Union. The arguement is, blacks want reparation because thier ancestors were enslaved, and they want the people whose ancestors enslaved them, and helped enslave them, to pay. They feel that since they were in that situation, that modern day African American's can't get off thier feet. So they feel they deserve money to 'get off thier feet'. *Ahem* *Cough*. I would be totally willing to mentor and help any black person who would come to me and ask for help. As a matter of fact, one of my brother's buddies from the Marine Corps needed some help (he was black), and he didn't know what to do. I gave him my advice on what I would do in the situation he was in. Of course, he didn't listen because he wanted to be the 'Macho guy'. He didn't want to settle things as I, or any other civilized person would have settled it. He got himself into deep trouble, and all I can say is, I tryed. I will also say if he ever came to me again with another problem and wanted me to solve it, I would try again. Simply because that is all they need. Some mentoring to help them get out of the situation they are in. But, it's up to them, how much they want to get out of that situation. 2) Money would help if it was going for the right causes. If will actually be used to go to college, and pay for work outfits. I guarantee it will be abused by at least 25% if they get the money. But, would this help out the majority? I don't think it would, it would be just enough to help a small minority of them. You take away our money though, we will be the ones poor, and not able to afford college. The point is, we don't know who the money will go to, what it will go towards, and how effectively it will be used. I wouldn't mind paying if I knew I could still stay on my feet and afford the things I need, and it was also going towards someone who will use it wisely. What are the odds of both happening though when the government is in charge of it? Slim to none. What are the odds of it happening if I was to mentor someone and help them out personally, and if needed, help them out financially? Better, but as in the example before, not always going to work. I say those who wish that this bill would pass, try to help someone out personally before trying to push it onto other people too. Being forced to help someone out that you have NO knowledge of, well, thats just BS! |
My ancestors also never owend slaves, and they fought for the Union, why should the blacks get money from me and my family?....I never see the people of india going over to england and saying "gee you treated us like shit...give us money" The fact is that reparations are a dream of some blacks but, but in reality reparations will never be paid.
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one more thing, the whites bought the black slaves from africa from BLACK MEN!!!!!!!!! Why not sue thier own? The black leaders in africa were the ones that started this mess in the first place.
mb heres my answer "you want money, here ya go" bigzooka: |
what the fuck is the Union, is this an American thing
oh ya, didn't you guys fight your own country....funny shit |
yeah well alot of countries fight themselves, we fought because the south wouldnt abide by our laws and wanted to seceed (break away) so we had to fight them to keep them in
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[quote="Capt. John Miller":7008c]yeah well alot of countries fight themselves, we fought because the south wouldnt abide by our laws and wanted to seceed (break away) so we had to fight them to keep them in[/quote:7008c]
so you killed a bunch of southeners so they would stay with you in America We let Quebec like vote if they wanted to go or something and it worked wouldn't you be better off without southern America......well some of the states, get rid of all the rednecks and hicks |
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Screw reparations. We already had a civil war over the whole thing and I believe it was our countries bloodiest conflict to date. Not to mention that it violates I dont know how many laws. It was legal at the time. You cannot punish someone for doing something that was legal at the time. Never mind that many of my ancestors didnt even get to the states until after slave times (not all, I did have relatives that fought for the confederacy and some in the revolution.) Some of the companies they want to go after have been bought and sold numerous times. Should you punish new owners for thing that prior owners did, legally, many generations ago? Hell NO! It was funny, I saw on tv some of the "millions for reparations" rally that was held in DC (before my wife made me change it) and I think they had about 50 people there. More people were speaking than attended. |
I DEMAND MY PAYMENT FROM ROME FOR PERSECUTING CHRISTIANS 1700 YEARS AGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I say, "NEVER! Why should my money go to some grandchildren of slaves? My family is from Syria and Slovokia. I have nothing to do with it! Even if my (great)grandfather did own slaves, why should i pay for something he did. Plus, the slavery doesn't affect Blacks so much today that they need some compensation. I hate when they bust on you for "enslaving their ancestors". Stupid if you ask me."
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no they dont deserve the goddamn money not to seem like a racist but we give enough shit to afro americans in the inner city. a big fat welfare check they need to stop asking for a handout. my ancesetors came from poland and sicily they never asked for a handout never asked for a helping hand. how about some money from germany from dealing with the holocaust? ha fat chance we earn our money. not all black people are on welfare i spent a day in rochester and where is everyone at 3 in the afternoon? hanging around instead of being at work no surprise. i hate to come off so hatefully but when my family has to pay some lazy man can stay home from working its sad. then the scream and bitch like 6 year olds because they were slaves. big fucking deal jews were slaves to eygpt. there not crying for a check jews have had it a lot harder than blacks they need to stop the crying
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well ya....Poland is like.....cool.....they can get there own money.....anyway my babcia lived in Poland during those times
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