SAS Soldier 'Quits'

Stammer · **SAS Soldier 'Quits' -** 03-12-2006, 01:43 PM

[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/12/nsas12.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/03/12/ixhome.html:72613]Link[/url:72613]

[quote:72613]An SAS soldier has refused to fight in Iraq and has left the Army over the "illegal" tactics of United States troops and the policies of coalition forces.

After three months in Baghdad, Ben Griffin told his commander that he was no longer prepared to fight alongside American forces.

Ben Griffin
Ben Griffin told commanders that he thought the Iraq war was illegal

He said he had witnessed "dozens of illegal acts" by US troops, claiming they viewed all Iraqis as "untermenschen" - the Nazi term for races regarded as sub-human.

The decision marks the first time an SAS soldier has refused to go into combat and quit the Army on moral grounds.

It immediately brought to an end Mr Griffin's exemplary, eight-year career in which he also served with the Parachute Regiment, taking part in operations in Northern Ireland, Macedonia and Afghanistan.

But it will also embarrass the Government and have a potentially profound impact on cases of other soldiers who have refused to fight.

On Wednesday, the pre-trial hearing will begin into the court martial of Flt Lt Malcolm Kendall-Smith, a Royal Air Force doctor who has refused to return to Iraq for a third tour of duty on the grounds that the war is illegal. Mr Griffin's allegations came as the Foreign Office minister Kim Howells, visiting Basra yesterday, admitted that Iraq was now "a mess".

Mr Griffin, 28, who spent two years with the SAS, said the American military's "gung-ho and trigger happy mentality" and tactics had completely undermined any chance of winning the hearts and minds of the Iraqi population. He added that many innocent civilians were arrested in night-time raids and interrogated by American soldiers, imprisoned in the notorious Abu Ghraib prison, or handed over to the Iraqi authorities and "most probably" tortured.

Mr Griffin eventually told SAS commanders at Hereford that he could not take part in a war which he regarded as "illegal".

He added that he now believed that the Prime Minister and the Government had repeatedly "lied" over the war's conduct.

"I did not join the British Army to conduct American foreign policy," he said. He expected to be labelled a coward and to face a court martial and imprisonment after making what "the most difficult decision of my life" last March.

Instead, he was discharged with a testimonial describing him as a "balanced, honest, loyal and determined individual who possesses the strength of character to have the courage of his convictions".

Last night Patrick Mercer, the shadow minister for homeland security, said: "Trooper Griffin is a highly experienced soldier. This makes his decision particularly disturbing and his views and opinions must be listened to by the Government."

The MoD declined to comment.[/quote:72613]

Tripper · 03-12-2006, 01:59 PM

[quote:f337d]Mr Griffin, 28, who spent two years with the SAS, said the American military's "gung-ho and trigger happy mentality" and tactics had completely undermined any chance of winning the hearts and minds of the Iraqi population.[/quote:f337d]

....I agree.

Machette · 03-12-2006, 03:15 PM

Rather then building another thread around Iraq..I'll just post this since it has relevance...

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/mid ... 350776.ece

Madmartagen · 03-12-2006, 03:34 PM

I agree as well, we went in too heavy handed and sent in kids instead of men. I think the bulk of our marine force is not equipped to win this war, they are only equipped for killing. No matter what the coalition does for Iraq, I think the Iraqi opinion towards the US is negative and its a bit late to change it now. This country fucked up again.

Jin-Roh · 03-12-2006, 03:47 PM

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060312/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/uncle_sam_wants_you;_ylt=AoJqtkB1zyTYqfxWolGeeYWs0 NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-:864a3]Another relevant article[/url:864a3]

ninty · 03-12-2006, 03:54 PM

What the troops are tasked with doing now is policing. Soldiers are not police officers.

Pyro · 03-12-2006, 04:07 PM

good for him.

Sgt>Stackem · 03-13-2006, 07:30 AM

screw him, too many "ifs' or "probably" in his statement. War is hell. Im sure many civilians were aressted. How can you tell until they are innocent or guilty until interigated

Machette · 03-13-2006, 10:23 AM

Takes alot of balls to do what he has done...SAS guys go through alot. Stackem your post reminds me about what most of the conservatives are saying at mp.net "this guy is just a pussy" "no truth in his statements" etc. You have to admire in some way that a "professional" soldier would do such a thing.

Poseidon · 03-13-2006, 10:53 AM

Just to think about it, his situation must be aweful. He mentioned it was the hardest decision he's made in his life. Potentially facing prison, more than likely being called a coward. Having this facing him, and to bite the bullet and do it, must be a huge decision.

Seriouisly you cant just label him a coward or a pussy, for this type of decision to be made (especially someone from the SAS). Maybe what he has said in the article actually did happen.

Sgt>Stackem · 03-13-2006, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machette

Takes alot of balls to do what he has done...SAS guys go through alot. Stackem your post reminds me about what most of the conservatives are saying at mp.net "this guy is just a pussy" "no truth in his statements" etc. You have to admire in some way that a "professional" soldier would do such a thing.

I never called him anything. I said "screw him" it is just one mans opinion, thats all. I respect what he has done to reach the level he has within his army but if your statements are iffy than it isnt worht the paper its printed on. Im sure you could find another soldier to refute every statement he made, who would that make right? Neither because that would also be one mans opinion.

I just dont see it as news

Madmartagen · 03-13-2006, 11:44 AM

[quote="Sgt>Stackem":c9d0f]How can you tell until they are innocent or guilty until interigated[/quote:c9d0f]what kind of interrogation are you referring to?

Machette · 03-13-2006, 12:08 PM

[quote="Sgt>Stackem":13e9b]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machette

Takes alot of balls to do what he has done...SAS guys go through alot. Stackem your post reminds me about what most of the conservatives are saying at mp.net "this guy is just a pussy" "no truth in his statements" etc. You have to admire in some way that a "professional" soldier would do such a thing.

I never called him anything. I said "screw him" it is just one mans opinion, thats all. I respect what he has done to reach the level he has within his army but if your statements are iffy than it isnt worht the paper its printed on. Im sure you could find another soldier to refute every statement he made, who would that make right? Neither because that would also be one mans opinion.

I just dont see it as news[/quote:13e9b]

I mean this isn't just a regular type army joe..SAS is a elite unit in the british army..this guy worked very hard to become a SAS memeber..then he just suddenly gives it all away, that really is something if you ask me..this is the FIRST SAS member to do this in a long time. I don't see why you conservatives are saying that his statements are wrong, he may have some hyperbolic statements.. but prove them to me and others that they are all wrong. And don't bring that question back to me because I'm not the one in denial of this man's opinion of how the war is immoral.

Sgt>Stackem · 03-13-2006, 12:45 PM

[quote=Machette]

Quote:

Originally Posted by "Sgt>Stackem":4b648

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machette

Takes alot of balls to do what he has done...SAS guys go through alot. Stackem your post reminds me about what most of the conservatives are saying at mp.net "this guy is just a pussy" "no truth in his statements" etc. You have to admire in some way that a "professional" soldier would do such a thing.

I never called him anything. I said "screw him" it is just one mans opinion, thats all. I respect what he has done to reach the level he has within his army but if your statements are iffy than it isnt worht the paper its printed on. Im sure you could find another soldier to refute every statement he made, who would that make right? Neither because that would also be one mans opinion.

I just dont see it as news

I mean this isn't just a regular type army joe..SAS is a elite unit in the british army..this guy worked very hard to become a SAS memeber..then he just suddenly gives it all away, that really is something if you ask me..this is the FIRST SAS member to do this in a long time. I don't see why you conservatives are saying that his statements are wrong, he may have some hyperbolic statements.. but prove them to me and others that they are all wrong. And don't bring that question back to me because I'm not the one in denial of this man's opinion of how the war is immoral.[/quote:4b648]

he may be right on, he may be some whack job. I dont know, you dont know. It is just an opinion. Opinions are never wrong, you may have a different opinion but that wouldnt make mine, his or anyone elses wrong

Madmartagen · 03-13-2006, 12:52 PM

do you think he is making this up or do you think he is overreacting? what?