[Short Hand]

Saladin = Da Man.

[Coleman]

Originally Posted by Noctis

Gary

There is a difference between:

"[...] I say to you, love your enemies [...]"

and

"When the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them, besiege them and prepare for them each ambush. [...]"

well, who are you to say that Christianity is right? That's my point. There is no "one and only proven religion". Until something is drastically discovered about the Earth's history, I doubt religious wars will end.

But why do you think "peace" is right? Look at the Vikings. They fucking raped everyone and looted. Who were to say that they were wrong? It is just a biased decision when you say someone is "wrong". I don't think there is a nuetral standpoint here...no matter what we say, we'll be biased.

[Short Hand]

To tell you the truth, ever since the fucking Seljuk's destroyed the Royal family of Saladin and destryoed the Christian States in The Holy Land Islam hasn't been what it used to be and isn't what it "could be"

[Drew]

[quote="Garry Coleman":4c169]

Originally Posted by Noctis

Gary

There is a difference between:

"[...] I say to you, love your enemies [...]"

and

"When the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them, besiege them and prepare for them each ambush. [...]"

well, who are you to say that Christianity is right? That's my point. There is no "one and only proven religion". Until something is drastically discovered about the Earth's history, I doubt religious wars will end.

But why do you think "peace" is right? Look at the Vikings. They fucking raped everyone and looted. Who were to say that they were wrong? It is just a biased decision when you say someone is "wrong". I don't think there is a nuetral standpoint here...no matter what we say, we'll be biased.[/quote:4c169]

In making that statement, you are basically shunning the pillars of human morality. I mean, I think that we all can agree that murdering someone is not the right thing to do. You're trying to broaden the scope beyond what is relevant.

[Coleman]

[quote=Noctis]

Originally Posted by "Garry Coleman":de129

well, who are you to say that Christianity is right? That's my point. There is no "one and only proven religion". Until something is drastically discovered about the Earth's history, I doubt religious wars will end.

But why do you think "peace" is right? Look at the Vikings. They fucking raped everyone and looted. Who were to say that they were wrong? It is just a biased decision when you say someone is "wrong". I don't think there is a nuetral standpoint here...no matter what we say, we'll be biased.

In making that statement, you are basically shunning the pillars of human morality. I mean, I think that we all can agree that murdering someone is not the right thing to do. You're trying to broaden the scope beyond what is relevant.[/quote:de129]ok, let's get down to business then. Right and wrong are determined by laws. Correct? There are specific rules that lay out how to do a specific task. In the eyes of the Muslims, they are right because they are following their written rules correctly. So, technically they are right.


"When the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them, besiege them and prepare for them each ambush. [...]"

Where have i seen that before? ^

[Eames]

[quote="Garry Coleman":4c627]noctis, i think you may be going a little too far with this one. You are looking at it in a biased way. You'd have to know what their culture and upbringings are about. They have been taught Islam and they have so much faith in their religion that they are willing to "go to war" with people that oppose their culture and beliefs. On your side of things, you've been taught Christian values (I'm guessing). Why is their religion any different from yours in a sense of carrying out their requirements?


I'm just trying to get people to see what they're coming from. They feel the same way about us...."kill the infadels". We think, "Kill the barbarians". Just a thought...[/quote:4c627]

stop trying to act like you know something, no where in the bible does it say "kill the barbarians". no where in the new testament the basis of the christian religon does it state to use any type of violence on anyone. i know your thinking "the old testament is quite violent" the old testament is the basis of judiasm which does preach that non jews or "gentiles" are inferior and speaks of many archaic rules and practices that in the new testament are refuted by jesus. most religons are peaceful, the only exceptions would be the jews and the muslims, islam being the more violently militant of the two.

[Coleman]

[quote=Eames]

Originally Posted by "Garry Coleman":7f336

noctis, i think you may be going a little too far with this one. You are looking at it in a biased way. You'd have to know what their culture and upbringings are about. They have been taught Islam and they have so much faith in their religion that they are willing to "go to war" with people that oppose their culture and beliefs. On your side of things, you've been taught Christian values (I'm guessing). Why is their religion any different from yours in a sense of carrying out their requirements?


I'm just trying to get people to see what they're coming from. They feel the same way about us...."kill the infadels". We think, "Kill the barbarians". Just a thought...

stop trying to act like you know something, no where in the bible does it say "kill the barbarians". no where in the new testament the basis of the christian religon does it state to use any type of violence on anyone. i know your thinking "the old testament is quite violent" the old testament is the basis of judiasm which does preach that non jews or "gentiles" are inferior and speaks of many archaic rules and practices that in the new testament are refuted by jesus. most religons are peaceful, the only exceptions would be the jews and the muslims, islam being the more violently militant of the two.[/quote:7f336]actually, i wasn't even talking about religion at that moment. We as a nation are not all Christians, therefore, i was not refering to our opinion of killing the barbarians to be christian. That was more of a statement from our democratic society. calmdown:

[SoLiDUS]

Are you seriously entertaining the idea that murder could be considered
good ? Only under a seriously twisted morality, perhaps. How could men
and the society they are a part of function properly if they could take lives
whenever they so pleased ? You can use no force against an other, unless
in retaliation and only to the extent that the threat has been repelled.

Following the golden rule is actually quite simple.

[Eames]

[quote="Garry Coleman":410d0][quote=Eames]

Originally Posted by "Garry Coleman":410d0

noctis, i think you may be going a little too far with this one. You are looking at it in a biased way. You'd have to know what their culture and upbringings are about. They have been taught Islam and they have so much faith in their religion that they are willing to "go to war" with people that oppose their culture and beliefs. On your side of things, you've been taught Christian values (I'm guessing). Why is their religion any different from yours in a sense of carrying out their requirements?


I'm just trying to get people to see what they're coming from. They feel the same way about us...."kill the infadels". We think, "Kill the barbarians". Just a thought...

stop trying to act like you know something, no where in the bible does it say "kill the barbarians". no where in the new testament the basis of the christian religon does it state to use any type of violence on anyone. i know your thinking "the old testament is quite violent" the old testament is the basis of judiasm which does preach that non jews or "gentiles" are inferior and speaks of many archaic rules and practices that in the new testament are refuted by jesus. most religons are peaceful, the only exceptions would be the jews and the muslims, islam being the more violently militant of the two.[/quote:410d0]actually, i wasn't even talking about religion at that moment. We as a nation are not all Christians, therefore, i was not refering to our opinion of killing the barbarians to be christian. That was more of a statement from our democratic society. calmdown:[/quote:410d0]

before you made your barbarian comment you were talking about whats the difference between a christian carrying out its requirments and a muslim carrying out his requirments, i think noctis pretty much summed it up...christ spoke of forgivness and mercy while mohammed spole of rape, pillage, plunder and war...islam is basicly 7th century arabian culture turned into a religon....islam can not function in the modern world, its followers are still living in 7th century arabia. its why most muslims who find sucess in the west usually drop islam because they realize its complete bull shit.

[Coleman]

[quote=Eames][quote="Garry Coleman":2e3aa]

Originally Posted by Eames

stop trying to act like you know something, no where in the bible does it say "kill the barbarians". no where in the new testament the basis of the christian religon does it state to use any type of violence on anyone. i know your thinking "the old testament is quite violent" the old testament is the basis of judiasm which does preach that non jews or "gentiles" are inferior and speaks of many archaic rules and practices that in the new testament are refuted by jesus. most religons are peaceful, the only exceptions would be the jews and the muslims, islam being the more violently militant of the two.

actually, i wasn't even talking about religion at that moment. We as a nation are not all Christians, therefore, i was not refering to our opinion of killing the barbarians to be christian. That was more of a statement from our democratic society. calmdown:[/quote:2e3aa]

before you made your barbarian comment you were talking about whats the difference between a christian carrying out its requirments and a muslim carrying out his requirments, i think noctis pretty much summed it up...christ spoke of forgivness and mercy while mohammed spole of rape, pillage, plunder and war...islam is basicly 7th century arabian culture turned into a religon....islam can not function in the modern world, its followers are still living in 7th century arabia. its why most muslims who find sucess in the west usually drop islam because they realize its complete bull shit.[/quote:2e3aa]Sorry if my post was a little confusing with my wording. i don't know about them finding sucess because they think Islam is bullshit--I disagree with that statement. I just can't really explain why. Maybe that's just personal opinion.

Well, every religion is.

[Coleman]

Originally Posted by SoLiDUS

Are you seriously entertaining the idea that murder could be considered
good ? Only under a seriously twisted morality, perhaps. How could men
and the society they are a part of function properly if they could take lives
whenever they so pleased ? You can use no force against an other, unless
in retaliation and only to the extent that the threat has been repelled.

Following the golden rule is actually quite simple.

Solidus, like I said before, I'm not saying that killing is right. I am a devout Roman Catholic (if you haven't noticed from my other posts in religious threads) and I firmly believe in my relgion (except for the part that masterbation is a sin biggrin: ...but that's another story). I was just trying to get the point accross from a different point of view. I disagreed with all my statements about Muslims being right. I think we are right because I was brought up as a Catholic. Maybe if i was an Muslim, i might think differently.

[SoLiDUS]

[quote:97162]I firmly believe in my relgion (except for the part that masterbation is a sin ...but that's another story[/quote:97162]

biggrin:

As for the rest of the post, I understand. Perspective is capital but let's not
forget that the golden rule ("do unto others as you would like them do unto
you" and the corollary "don't do to others what you wouldn't want done unto
you") applies to every rational society. There is simply no excuse to act the
way they do (this applies to the true islamics)...

[Coleman]

Originally Posted by SoLiDUS

[quote:b8607]I firmly believe in my relgion (except for the part that masterbation is a sin ...but that's another story

biggrin:

As for the rest of the post, I understand. Perspective is capital but let's not
forget that the golden rule ("do unto others as you would like them do unto
you" and the corollary "don't do to others what you wouldn't want done unto
you") applies to every rational society. There is simply no excuse to act the
way they do (this applies to the true islamics)...[/quote:b8607]ok, I'm glad we both understand eachothers post. and yes, I do think the golden rule should be universal for every religion.

as I see it Islam is right now where Christianity was during the inquisition (ie a bunch of religious fanatics attacking anything that is different); they may yet grow out of it. The challenge is to keep the extremists down and keep them from gaining the support of the main stream muslims.