[rdeyes]

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.a ... E_ID=43372

eek:

[Drew]

Not surprising. They want an apology for a series of wars that were caused solely by their own territorial invasions and imperialistic ambitions.

wallbash: wallbash: wallbash: wallbash: wallbash: wallbash: wallbash: wallbash: wallbash: wallbash: wallbash: wallbash: wallbash: wallbash: wallbash:

[Ferich]

There were more than five crusades and Thomas Madden only provided an explanation of the fist crusade btw. Let's not forget that things that happened in this time period are only shared through accounts of the soldiers, unaccurate science, historians, or official records. Any of these could easily be biased, so why even place a blame on a war that happened so long ago on anyone?

For more crusades info, this is the best site: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/sbook1k.html

Originally Posted by Drew

Not surprising. They want an apology for a series of wars that were caused solely by their own territorial invasions and imperialistic ambitions.

wallbash: wallbash: wallbash: wallbash: wallbash: wallbash: wallbash: wallbash: wallbash: wallbash: wallbash: wallbash: wallbash: wallbash: wallbash:

Europeans did get greedy in the 1st Crusade seeing that they battled in more than Asia Minor. My opinion being based solely on the mainstream explanation of the 1st crusades justifcation being the turks in Asia Minor. Antioch and Jerusalem come to mind, although they were part of the Eastern Roman Empire aka Byzantine Empire at one point. But like I said there's so much information and different stories about the crusades it's ridiculous. So no one can ever be right or wrong.

[Drew]

I don't know. I tend to agree with KTOG from when we discussed this long ago. The first crusade was easily justified with the invading Muslims. The second crusade.. that's when it started getting a bit shady, but still I can kind of see what they were thinking because Zengi had a HUGE army for the times and had already sacked Edessa, with no real signs that his intent was to stop there.

[Ferich]

There's definately no clear cut group of people to blame or need to provide an apology. Especially a whole religion or a religous monarchy like the papacy/Islamic equivalent. That sounds like bullshit to me.

[Madmartagen]

both sides can be blamed, but they need to let it go. even if there werent any crusades, they would probably be in the same situation they are in now. the crusades failed, i dont understand how an apology is warranted.

sleeping:

[Pyro]

hha i love when people only blame one side.

No body is ignorant enough to think christianity is completly innocent.

[Coleman]

Originally Posted by Pyro

No body is ignorant enough to think christianity is completly innocent.

eek:

[Madmartagen]

i dont think anyone is saying that christianity is innocent, far from it. this was a time before nationalism and permanent territorial boundries. the pope just sent armies to jerusalem to make sure the holy land was christian and not muslim. lands under muslim control actually benefited more than christan lands. islam had far better education, medicine and were much more tolerant than christians. it would be interesting to see how the world would have turned out if the muslims had succeeded in taking europe, or kept control of the lands they had. islam before jihad was much better than christianity ever was at its height.

but, its been almost a thousand years already. they need to let it go. ffs, what is the point of holding centuries old grudges with the west and israel?

[Pyro]

people always want leveage in something I guess.

The way minorities go on about racism in our countries says that people keep past grudges when most of the people living now werne't even born then.

[Madmartagen]

Originally Posted by Pyro

people always want leveage in something I guess.

The way minorities go on about racism in our countries says that people keep past grudges when most of the people living now werne't even born then.

true, but that shit should smooth out in a couple of more generations.

i mistakenly read that they wanted a paypal apology, meaning that they got reparations via paypal... eek: