SAS Soldier 'Quits' - Page 2

Sgt>Stackem · 03-13-2006, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madmartagen

do you think he is making this up or do you think he is overreacting? what?

not sure what to make of it. It is one guy ranting about something. I have never heard of him before. I dont know if he was a problem within the military, I dont know if his wife just left him and he is pissed at the world. I think it isnt news, thats all

Colonel · 03-13-2006, 03:01 PM

The fact that he is one of many shows, either he is the only to have the courage to stand up to an "immoral" war, or he is in the company of brave men but he is one of a very few that feel the way he does. Since, as you say, he is in an elite outfit, I am assuming the second theory is closer to correct. Furthermore, when he signed up for the military he had to know that he would not always agree with the policies of the government and that he possibly would have to follow orders in a war that he did not personally agree with. I don't think he will have much chance in court. For him to win he will have to prove that following the order to fight is "immoral". I think that is going to be a tall order.

Unknown_Sniper · 03-13-2006, 03:20 PM

He didnt quit purely becuase it was imoral, but because it was illegal and he was not fighting for the people of iraq or even his own government. He was there to enforce the policies of the United states. He did not agree with the policies, and they are not his governments there for not his policies, so he decided to leave.
But the fact that the government gave him a discharge and no court marshal but they are still bringing to court a doctor who did want to go on a THIRD tour in Iraq is stupid of them to do.
And stackem, that whole thing about we need to interrogate people to find out if they are innocent or not if absolutly fucking insane. You should be ashamed of yoruself for saying that. The United states should not drag people out of their houses and tourture them to be sure they havent done anythign bad. Hell would you like to be eating dinner then get arrested just ot make sure you arent maybe planning a plot against the government? Leave the people alone or else they will plot against the government. And hte troops need to be replaced with Iraqi police ASAP and get the USA troops out. ITs not their country to police and they should not be there now that the war is over.

Colonel · 03-13-2006, 03:50 PM

[quote="Unknown_Sniper":c8808]... but because it was illegal and he was not fighting for the people of iraq or even his own government. .....[/quote:c8808]

If his government deployed him then he is fighting for his own government. Also, I failed to mention this the first time, the fact that he served two terms before deciding it was "illegal" just shows that when he was told he was going back he just came to that conclusion as a way to get out of it.

As for interrogating people, they only interrogate people who they suspect are involved in terrorist activity. If, you are sitting at your dinner table, and your local police believe you are involved in a crime, they have every right to come in and take you (by force if necessary) down to the police station for questioning.

Machette · 03-13-2006, 04:13 PM

You guys really need to open your eyes..That's all I'm going to say.

Pyro · 03-13-2006, 04:47 PM

Seriouslly...can your President EVER do anything wrong? Ive never seen anyone even remotly think anything hes done is bad yet in this forum from his followers.

Colonel · 03-13-2006, 04:59 PM

Well, most recently, he was totally wrong (IMHO) about letting a foreign company run US ports. He is also wrong (as was Pres. Clinton) in the way the government is dealing with China. He's also wrong for not being tougher on illegal immigration.

But in Iraq he is right and I admire him for having "the courage to stand up" for what he believes in.

Pyro · 03-13-2006, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colonel

Well, most recently, he was totally wrong (IMHO) about letting a foreign company run US ports. He is also wrong (as was Pres. Clinton) in the way the government is dealing with China. He's also wrong for not being tougher on illegal immigration.

But in Iraq he is right and I admire him for having "the courage to stand up" for what he believes in.

Hitler had the courage too.

Machette · 03-13-2006, 05:23 PM

I really do admire your position Colonel, I really do. But why don't you inform me among many others on this fourm about some good news from Iraq. None of that "the iraq people are free from Saddam insane" stuff either..because I bet if you went into baghdad or any other major city and even some villages they would say they "want electricity, water, security" Iraq was controlled by a strong arm dictator for years and he knew how to control the masses, by fear. How is America going to control Iraq? Everyday I open the newspaper and read news on the internet I see constant bombings, kidnappings, ransoms...what good have you brought these poor people?

Coleman · 03-13-2006, 05:43 PM

Yarrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[img] "I am William Wallace. And I see a whole army of my countrymen,
here in defiance of tyranny! You have come to fight as free men. And
free man you are! What will you do without freedom? Will you fight?"
"Two thousand against ten?" - the veteran shouted. "No! We will
run - and live!"
"Yes!" Wallace shouted back. "Fight and you may die. Run and you
will live at least awhile. And dying in your bed many years from now,
would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for
one chance, just one cahnce, to come back here as young men and tell
our enemies that they may take our lives but they will never take
our freedom!"
[/img]

Sgt>Stackem · 03-13-2006, 05:56 PM

[quote="Unknown_Sniper":8f70d]
And stackem, that whole thing about we need to interrogate people to find out if they are innocent or not if absolutly fucking insane. You should be ashamed of yoruself for saying that. The United states should not drag people out of their houses and tourture them to be sure they havent done anythign bad. .[/quote:8f70d]

try to follow my train of thought, the army gets intel saying some bad guys are at a certian location. The army goes there and grabs everyone, they itnerrogate everyone. If they are not the ones they are looking for they are released. There is no way possible to know who is who without interrogating them.
To interrogate someone does not mean torture them. You added that, I never said to torture them. Those innocent people are living in a war zone, my dinner table is not, so your comparision is not worthy

Short Hand · 03-13-2006, 06:14 PM

[quote="Sgt>Stackem":0d224][quote="Unknown_Sniper":0d224]
And stackem, that whole thing about we need to interrogate people to find out if they are innocent or not if absolutly fucking insane. You should be ashamed of yoruself for saying that. The United states should not drag people out of their houses and tourture them to be sure they havent done anythign bad. .[/quote:0d224]

try to follow my train of thought, the army gets intel saying some bad guys are at a certian location. The army goes there and grabs everyone, they itnerrogate everyone. If they are not the ones they are looking for they are released. There is no way possible to know who is who without interrogating them.
To interrogate someone does not mean torture them. You added that, I never said to torture them. Those innocent people are living in a war zone, my dinner table is not, so your comparision is not worthy[/quote:0d224]

You do know 98 % of this intel is crap from other civy's around the area right ? SUCH as a possible neighbor who has a massive bone to pick with another, ect ect. It is the only way to get this crap and it is extremely unreliable.

Madmartagen · 03-13-2006, 06:16 PM

the army fucks up all the time, its worse than any payroll department. most troops on the ground dont speak arabic/farsi and how long does it take to clear someone who is innocent? meanwhile your stuck in abu gahriab (sp?) getting fucked by inbred prison guard rejects, dogs, batons and tasers for being at the wrong place at the wrong time. what if youre innocent? you think any of the guards give a shit? to them ,anyone in there is guilty and is ripe for an ass fucking.

Colonel · 03-13-2006, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machette

I really do admire your position Colonel, I really do. But why don't you inform me among many others on this fourm about some good news from Iraq. None of that "the iraq people are free from Saddam insane" stuff either..because I bet if you went into baghdad or any other major city and even some villages they would say they "want electricity, water, security" Iraq was controlled by a strong arm dictator for years and he knew how to control the masses, by fear. How is America going to control Iraq? Everyday I open the newspaper and read news on the internet I see constant bombings, kidnappings, ransoms...what good have you brought these poor people?

No problem. But this will take awhile and my ADD is kicking in so I proabably won't get to everything.

First, the reason that you are reading it in the paper is because the press is now taking an interest. If they had taken an interest before we were there you would realise that the number of kidnappings, bombings, deaths etc. are far less now than they were when Saddam (and don't forget his sons) was in his heyday. The simple explanation of "what good have you brought these people" is that now a handful are dying (mostly at the hands of muslims from other countries) versus the half million or more under Saddam.

Regardless of what Saddam was doing to his own people I believe that he was a threat to the US and the world. If you don't believe that ask the folks in Kawait. Does being a bad guy give us the right to attack him? No. But he was given several ultimatums by the UN and he ignored them. He was even told "if you don't coorperate we will attack" in a resolution passed by the UN. He did not cooperate.

As for "the good news" from Iraq. The war is over. We won. IMHO what is going on now is not war, but terrorist acts by folks that don't want the Iraqi people to have the freedom to govern themselves. And the real good news is that the Iraqi people want us there and do not need to be controlled by America. They will control themselves as they set up their own government. Heck, it took these USofA years to set up a government that worked.

I'm sure that nothing Stackem or I say will convince any of you youngsters that there is anything in this world worth fighting for. But in our group of guys that play online together we have several retired vets, we have several active military guys, we have a grandma that has a nephew in Iraq, and we even had a retired guy sign on with a firm to go and guard the palace in Afghanistan for a year or so. The stories that these guys tell of what is happening over there and the letters that they receive from friends and relatives, are 100% positive about progress being made, 100% positive about the relationship that the military has with the locals and 100% positive in their commitment to their mission. Are there going to be a few guys that are not happy? Sure. Is the press going to harp on these few negative, unhappy souls instead of the overwhelming number of happy, motivated soldiers? You can bet your life on it.

More later. I have to save the little strength left in my fingers to snipe Judas in BF2.

BTW - Pyro, actually Hilter was a coward. That's why he murdered so many people.... and why he killed himself.

Short Hand · 03-13-2006, 06:52 PM

I can't fucking beleive someone as bright as your are Colonel can't fucking conceive how much of a fucking disater Iraq has been. Stop dreaming up your fantasy Iraq.. AND start conceding some ground on this topic.