[pest]

totenkopt - my post wasnt directed at anyone in particular. I apologize if it seemed that way. I came in late in the thread and didnt read all 6 previous pages of posts.

solidus - I agree about hte in your face people, on both sides, they rank right up there with telemarketers, and get the same response from me - none.

The big bang thing - I have a hard time believing that something like the big bang could occur with out some sort of catalyst. And them where did that catalyst come from? and we could keep going farther and farther back. No beginning, no end. I am the alpha and the omega. It all came from somewhere and I can offer no alternative. Thats where faith comes in. Its the which came first, the chinken or the egg paradox. There is no answer, just thoeries.

Religion is more complex than the control of populations. Yes, it has been utilized for just that, but its beginnings were not intended for that. Many of the traditions of religion are based more on physical and economic needs than on spirital reasons, but in many regions and eras, the church was the law. It was a natural and many times a mutually beneficial progression. It is impossible to talk about religion without talking about economics and politics. but go back to the first religions - the animistic worship and totems. They were attempts to explain the world their followers lived in. They were based more on respect for their gods than control of a populance. Most religions are pure, it is usually the church practices that tend to be corrupt or at least distorted from the original objective.

I never said you had to like the bible, but you should at least respect its historical siginificance. While most of its true meaning is found in the new testiment, the old testament is a very interesting historical account. I took an old test. class in college where we would read a chapter/book and then the teacher would explain the historic and political settings of the time. Seeing many of these events in a new context was an eye opener, and truely increased my respect for the writings and events.